Some Questions.

Have you spoken to Holiday Autos?

If you made the booking via them what insurance cover did you request?

What is the normal insurance cover that they offer?

When you collected the vehicle did you have to make any payments or were those made in the UK.

What exactly does your hire document say?

What do the Terms & Conditions say?

When did you make the payment of the 700Euros?

When you were made the offer of super cover after the accident were you advised if this would cancel the 700 Euro excess?

You refer to Unfair Terms but vehicle hire agreements are fairly standard throughout the world. You should also remember that these are UK regulations and are not binding on companies abroad.

In my experience, having run vehicle hire operations, the T&Cs are really quite clear in explaining what is and is not covered.

Yes I do agree that as with T&Cs in general there is so much to read and the print is small which make things difficult.

Not being difficult but we need to know these things to be able to help.

fwh

Gladly and thanks for your swift response. Answers to your questions in the order they were written as follows:

Yes, I spoke with HA from Fuerte and they advised me to pay the excess and revert on return.

I requested comprehensive cover.

I understand this is the normal insurance cover that HA offer.

I paid HA for the car rental in June 2005. I paid nothing to Avis when I collected the vehicle though they asked for a credit card number and said my wife would have to pay a premium to be an additional driver. We declined.

Our HA car rental partner agreement states our insurance product is "inclusive, damage excess waiver".

HA's terms and conditions state "You will be required to leave a deposit to the value of the insurance excess. If the car is damaged during the rental you may be charged an excess of between EUR 574.47 - 861.70 depending on the size of the car which will be debited from your deposit. The holiday autos damage excess waiver product, if purchased at time of booking, will cover you for damage excess that you may be charged in the event of an accident (subject to certain exclusions, see terms and conditions for details).

We made a payment of 800 Euros to Avis on returning our replacement rental car. 700 Euros excess charge and an extra 100 Euros was charged for 'super collision damage waiver' to prevent having to pay damage excess again in the event on a further accident. I paid this under duress as I believed then, as I do now, that I had already purchased comprehensive insurance including damage excess waiver.

No, I was not advised the additional payment would cancel the 700 Euros excess charge.

I take your point about the Acts but they appear to be my only legal form of redress in the UK, though I have yet to seek legal advice.

I also concur that HA's T&C's are quite clear. My only problem is that the contract agreed between HA and myself was not mirrored by Avis in Spain. I am hopeful that HA will honour their obligation to me and provide compensation as our agreement clearly included damage excess waiver, not collision damage waiver with payable excess.

It is not my intention to point the finger at anyone. On the contrary, my primary aim is to have my money refunded as I believe this to be just and fair.

Incidentally, the accident itself may still be the focus of an ongoing police investigation as the driver took flight.

Having read the T&Cs for Holiday Autos I am a little puzzled at what they say. And I am supposed to understand.

The manner in which it is explained is, in my opinion, confusing. I suspect that the insurance cover is 3rd party only. Purchase of CDW reduces liability down to any excess. You can then purchase DEW that covers the excess. It says you may be required to pay the excess to the rental company and then claim it back on your return to the UK

So now you need to check exactly what insurance cover you had. Obviously you had CDW - But did you also have DEW?

My suggestion is that you print off the details shown on the HA website. Check your documentation as it should show a breakdown of ALL CHARGES.

If it shows DEW then you simply claim it back from HA

My personal view is that when I hire a car I always specify that I want full cover. That in the case of an accident I do not want to pay any charges and want the appropriate insurance cover.

The confusion in my opinion is that people think that CDW covers this. I do not think this is unreasonable, unless you are used to hiring vehicles, or have some specialist knowledge, as in my case. When I operated we sold CDW as covering everything. Reading this policy they quite specifically do not do that.

I would suggest some legal advice on this. You are aware that this accident can effect your insurance in this country. I feel that it can be misleading and could therefore be considered an unfair contract, as your agreement is with the UK arm of HA.

fwh

Dear fwh,

Thank you for your advice.

I tend to agree with you as regards 'collision damage waiver' and as I said earlier my HA contract categorically states "inclusive, damage excess waiver". As I had requested comprehensive cover, this appeared to be correct. If it had stated "inclusive, collision damage waiver" only, I would have queried it immediately.

The separate Avis contract handed to me on arrival mentions collision damage waiver and excess charges among other things. However, I was not told by HA or Avis that HA's 'damage excess waiver' was not equitable with Avis' 'super collision damage waiver' and therefore did not believe any of Avis's alternative rental information applied to me. I now know to my cost this was indeed the case as Avis explained to me after the accident and at a further cost of 100 Euros to enhance the policy from cdw to scdw, notwithstanding the 700 Euros excess charge.

This simply cannot be right and I hope HA take Avis to task. Personally, I do not feel that I have done anything wrong whatsoever but still ended up a victim of circumstance.

Thanks once again and I will consult with HA right away and if necessary seek legal advice.

Kind regards

You are required to complete a rental agreement by law, does not matter where in the world, and produce a driving licence. In effect it is an insurance document as well as a contract.

As you had already booked with HA then it is possible that the correct boxes have not been ticked on the agreement.

This in no way alters the facts. Reading the HA website my interpretation is the 700 euros is claimed back from HA on your return. They are doing the insurance cover for that not Avis.

fwh

fwh, noted and thanks.

Latest update today (Sat) is I received a final invoice from Avis ES that clearly states they have charged an additional fee of 89.74 Euros for, wait for it, 'cdw' not 'super cdw' as advised at the time. The repair excess was charged at 619.04 Euros. VAT at 13% was added to both charges (92.24 Euros) giving a total charge of 800.92 Euros.

However, I have since spoken with HA customer support again who were sympathetic and helpful. HA have issued a statement of complaint to Avis on my behalf and were confident the excess charges would be refunded in due course. HA asked me to fax them all the supporting documentation in defence of our case.

I will keep the forum informed of developments.

Thanks for keeping us informed on this. For anyone else who may be booking a car hire as in this case, it shows how important it is to ensure that every box is correctly ticked. Double check the documents before you go.

fwh

I think this whole issue is more complex than ticking boxes. The Sunday Times has for the past 2 weeks been running a campaign to get fair car insurance abroad, as unfortunately Integrity, your experience is becoming increasingly more common, even from the 'big' ( reputable??) car hire companies.
Comprehensive insurance abroad seems to not be what we would expect. Instead you are still liable for a whole catalogue of things from damaged windscreens to burst tyres. If your car is stolen or damaged when parked as far as I can tell you're probabaly liable. Horrendous stories were reported with people having 1000s of euro deducted from their credit cards due to alleged damage.
We decided against hiring a car on our last holiday for this very reason. It didn't help listening to a large party dispute supposed damage to the vehicle they were returning as we were making our initial enquiry.
Why can you not get full 100% comprehensive cover as you do in the UK?
Why does comprehensive not mean comprehensive?
You should e-mail your experience to the Sunday Times as they are keen to gather as many stories like your own in order to try and produce a fair deal for rental drivers abroad.
For my own part we are investigating http://www.insurance4carhire.com as they seem to offer cover which fills in the gaps that these companies are leaving out.

Thought this would interest. Very comprehensive information here.

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,19829-1642980,00.html

Tyres have never ever been covered by insurance on vehicle hire - either home or abroad.

The underside damage charge is not unreasonable. Would you take your own car off road? - I can relate many true stories of damage caused to hire cars. People do seem to think if it is not their own car then it does not matter.

I stick by what I have said. Ensure that all relevent boxes are completed. If you go to court and they are not then you are stuck.

The same rules apply to car hire as to everything else. Something we keep stressing here on HT is read the T&Cs - It is a fact that most of the problems people face are due to assuming that they are covered. I know it is a pain, I know you want to be off. But is five minutes less on the beach more important?

fwh

toastedmallow/fwh, thanks for your continued interest.

fwh - I can confirm that all boxes were ticked correctly on my agreement with Holiday Autos and they agree this is the case. The problem appears to be in its interpretation by Avis ES.

Please rest assured I am not on a personal crusade to deride car rental companies. My wife and I have rented cars in the USA and Europe several times without incident and we need to drive again in Europe soon. I seek only fairness and a level playing field.

toasted mallow - thanks kindly for your link to the Sunday Times article that I will read with interest.

Yes I agree, it's lack of fairness that is the big problem.
Of course companies have to protect themselves against idiots who don't treat the hire car with due respect, but it seems that the companies aren't treating their customers with respect either.
One of the problems is trying to get cover without a huge excess.
There are far too many people being taken advantage of, and I think it is a very worrying trend. I don't think it's only due to people dashing off to the beach and being neglectful. Contracts need to be written in easy to understand language( another point raised by the ST).
If foreign car hire is not a problematic subject why would the Sunday Times have seen the necessity to launch this campaign?

I know this is a bit after the event but have a look at http://www.insurance4carhire.com might be a bit expensive but seems to be designed to allow you to get the basic cover on the hire car and then this covers you for any nasty bills and includes cover for tyres and windows etc.

Doesnt of course do away with the requirement for fair play by the hire companies and thank goodness for the Sunday Times campaign

Hi
When we hired a car in Britain our travel insurance covered us for the excess... did yours? Just a thought.

Regards Geri

If you can get your hands on yesterday's Sunday Times, the travel section has a good article advising ways to get the best deal & safeguard yourself against any scams.

That wasn't a rude word!!! Replace with rip-offs??

Hi
Insurance4carhire seem good value at £49 .
Europcar would charge us 12 euros a day for Excess waiver.
Over a fortnight thats alot more than £49!!!
We have another fortnights carhire in September so its even better value!

Yes Dot,
We're definitely going to take out that insurance, as we've 2 holidays before the end of the year & hope to hire a car both times. It doesn't seem a lot for peace of mind.

I said I would keep the forum updated on my original enquiry.

I am happy to confirm that Holiday Autos (HA are now part of lastminute.com) have refunded my excess charge in full. HA have been helpful throughout and I would use them again without hesitation.

I am entirely unimpressed with Avis ES. They refused to refund the 'super cdw' charge for unnecessary extra cover that I was pressure-sold at Fuerte airport. To say they have been unhelpful would be to put it mildly.

However, it is Avis' loss in the long run as I have cancelled my UK business account and now pay independently.

One last observation. I remain concerned at the total lack of cross-over between the HA contract at the UK end and the Avis ES contract at the Fuerte end. Buyers beware.