Court or ABTA arbitration for VIRGIN HOLIDAYS complaint

Andrew Sampson

2016-12-22 21:19:53

Hi,
We booked a holiday to Cuba this year, two centre, Havana & then beach, cost £3300 (with 10% off )
Havana part was fine.
We then travelled to the Hotel Paradisus Varadero, to find our chosen hotel had closed 3 weeks previously and we had been moved to the new family resort built on the adjacent site.
When I say shut I mean shut, all the restaurants were closed, the rooms were all closed, some undergoing renovation.
This was the beach side locaion, as per the brochure and websites, looks idyllic, the pools were still open and one pool bar, the new accomodation was nothing like the old site , 3 storey, looks like council flats, and not something we would have chosen had we been given any notice, we'd have cancelled or gone somewhere else.
Trip advisor is littered with photo's and complaints alot of which have sprung up since the move to the new site.
We spoke to some Thomson guests who told us they had been notified of the change.
We complained to the Virgin rep the next day, he confirmed Virgin were aware of the closure & he didn't have a solution, so we had to lump it.
There were some issues with rooms, beds, restaurants, poor service etc, but the main complaint is the change of accomodation with no notice.
I complained from Cuba & got no response, complained on arrival home, no response.
Raised it with ABTA, contacted by Virgin, pointed to T&C's, £50 each compensation offer, declined
Virgin then had 28 days to respond which expired last week, so I emailed Mark Anderson the CEO, had a call Tuesday to offer me £318
I'm not inclined to accept that and want to take this further as I think we have a very good case for breach of contract, Virgin have admitted responsibility and said it should have been sorted there and then (with hindsight that would have been ideal) by the rep
So its court or ABTA arbitration? but I'm beginning to think ABTA are the travel industries united nations
I lodged the initial claim for £2000 which is about the cost of a week in an equivalent hotel to that booked in the first place.
So if I can ask for opinions as to arbitration of court please?

Edited by Andrew Sampson 2016-12-22 21:22:31

fwh

2016-12-23 16:48:44

You booked a two centre holiday and by your own admission there was no problem with the first part.

You say that problems were encountered on the second part any claim for compensation therefore would only be applicable to that portion.

You are claiming £2,000 for a hotel equivalent to the one you consider to be of the same standard booked, but then the figure is I assume based on a brochure price. That price would include the air fare. As a rule of thumb TOs split holiday cost as 60% airfare and 40% accommodation. You have already had the flight so you are left only with the hotel. Whilst the accommodation was not to the standard youexpected then any compensation would be based on that.

Convincing an adjudicator or court that it is worth £2,000 is I think very remote. Whilst you are free to pursue this then going to court/arbitration could possibly see you losing.

Virgin have made you an offer which they would be free to and likely would withdraw prior to your claim being considered by
ABTA/Court and if you lose then you are left with nothing but will have incurred the cost of arbitration or court fees.

Sometimes it is a case of accepting what is on the table rather than risk more money.

Edited by fwh 2016-12-23 16:58:24

jimd-f

2016-12-24 06:41:00

i agree with fwh. sometimes it is just a case of accepting that mistakes happen and taking the money and move on.
you have had your flights, the first week and a (inferior) hotel for your second week. the compensation offered is most likely the difference in cost of the two hotels with maybe a small amount for your inconvenience.
i cannot see you getting anywhere near £2000.
using the 60/40 there is £1320 for accommodation of which roughly half would be for your second week. so £660 is the approximate cost of week 2. an offer of £318 now starts to look like a reasonable offer.
if you are likely to use Virgin again for a holiday it may be worth asking if they would give you a voucher for £500 say, but now you have written to the CEO you are unlikely to be offered more cash

Sue Francis

2017-01-15 05:14:10

VIRGIN HOLIDAYS COURT OR ARBITRATION - OURT!!

Hello

We are taking Virgin Holidays to the small claims court for various reason summoning in loss of enjoyment of our holiday. Personally I would not bother with arbitration. The small claims process is fairly easy, he court fees you claim back in with your claim intact it is calculated on submitting the online form. If you keep your claim under 5000 the cost is only 185, if under 3000 the cost is 105. Trust me best practice is the court route. Mark Anderson Director of Virgin claims to be a champion of Customer Service, re rate him champion of Elusive. Contact me or see my post re virgin too. We have filed our case only this week. good luck

fwh

2017-01-15 14:23:51

Some points to consider

1 - If you wish to make a claim then you must follow the TOs claims procedure no matter how frustrating, and the obvious irritation weall feel when it seems to drag on and on. You must give the company (TO) the opportunity to put things right otherwise your claim will not be accepted by the arbitration panel or court.

2 - Lack of enjoyment is subjective and can be difficult to prove. Three years ago we booked a holiday which, no matter what reviews claim was not to the standard, in our opinion, that the reviews suggest or what we have come to expect from that particular hotel group that we have used and continue to use for years. It spolit what was to be a rather special occasion, Being realistic we wrote it off to experiance as there was little chance of any claim we made being succesful.

3 - Taking a claim to arbitration does not prevent you for going to court if you feel that the decision is wrong. Taking your case to court is the Final step. If you lose then that is the end of your claim. At least going to arbitration first gives you a second chance.

Edited by fwh 2017-01-15 14:28:12

Becky Parsons

2018-03-26 00:14:47

Outcome

Hi Sue, just found your posting. We are just in the process of taking virgin to arbitration - had a horrific time with them in florida - locked out of a villa on 3 occasions and it was a disgusting state etc. Asked for a villa move whilst there, racked up £200 phone bills, abandoned whilst hurricane irma took grip + so the horror continues. We Had considered court but thought arbitration would be best route. Can you please advise me how you got on with the courts and if that's what you'd advise over arbitration . Many thanks. Bex

Reuben Incisive Adamah

2018-05-04 19:02:55

Hi Sue,

We have just gone through ABTA and Virgin have rejected the concilation scheme so we have been told by ABTA that as it is optional for Virgin to participate, they cannot take things further and we should seek legal advice. So disappointing as this is approaching a year since the Holiday and our initial complaint.

Just wanted to know how the court route went for you and how you went about it?

Many Thanks

fwh

2018-05-04 20:44:07

Over a year ago I replied to a post by someone who was not happy at the offer by the Tour Operator, unfortunately the person who asked for advice/help did not see fit to tell us the final outcome. Such discourtesy is very frustrating for myself and others who often spend a great deal of time trying to find the answer. Most people have problems on holiday, some are on reflection very funny and make for a good story over a drink whilst others are serious.

For those as I said in my previous post "Taking a claim to arbitration does not prevent you for going to court if you feel that the decision is wrong. Taking your case to court is the Final step. If you lose then that is the end of your claim. At least going to arbitration first gives you a second chance."

Going to the Small Claims Court need not be scary, there is plenty of information and help - Citizens Advice can help and advise you. I have posted two links which give you the information you need should you decide to go to court.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-to-use-the-small-claims-court https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/taking-legal-action/small-claims/

I do ask that you come back and tell us how you go on.

FWH

Edited by fwh 2018-05-04 20:47:03

fwh

2018-05-04 20:59:01

Having posted the above a thought occured to me. Why did Virgin refuse arbitration with ABTA? Was it because they were not interested of that they do not subscribe to ABTA arbitration scheme? As far as I am aware Virgin DO subscribe to the RESOLVER cheme - Thomson /TUI do and I have used them with success. Try this link, yu can contact them and they may be able to help.

https://www.resolver.co.uk/complaints/travel-complaints

Reuben Incisive Adamah

2018-05-16 18:57:14

Hi FWH,

Thanks so much for your time and information provided. Not sure if you were aiming the question at my case but following creating a complete ABTA complaint with evidence, emails, photos, videos etc, ABTA asked how much we were claiming for. They took it to Virgin and came back with this response :

"Unfortunately, the ABTA Member has advised us that they are unwilling to use the Conciliation Scheme on this occasion, and as you'll be aware from our previous communication, the scheme is voluntary so customers can only proceed if the member agrees to it.

We would now recommend that you seek independent legal advice with either a solicitor of your choosing or your local Citizens Advice bureau.

Whilst we are sorry that we cannot progress any further with your case or add any further comments, you can of course exercise your full legal rights, and pursue the matter via your local small claims court.

In view of the above, your case will now be closed. "

I was completed bewildered as to how Virgin are able to respond to ABTA like this and it begs the question, what can ABTA ACTUALLY do. My Holiday was July 2017 and to be honest, I have been worn down. I will look into the small claims court process but I have simultaneously gone back to Virgin to see if their final (unreasonable) offer is still on the table.

I will keep you posted...

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