Hi,
We were on this flight, we like to call it, 'Flight from Hell'.
This flight was delayed and then downgraded to a much smaller plane. We lost our Premium seats and were jammed in like sardines, not only for the usual flight duration but also for the refuel in Bangor, Maine.
We rang Thomson and they told us we would be e-mailed details on how to make a complaint - oddly enough we haven't rec'd this or a refund.
The customer service for the flight was handled so badly and we were lied to so freely that I am very keen to seek compensation.
If you were on this flight have you had any luck with refunds/compensation, etc?
Thanks
What was the reason given for the downgrade? When did it happen?
You should be refunded the premium upgrade cost you paid for the leg that you were downgraded.
Mark
You should be refunded the premium upgrade cost you paid for the leg that you were downgraded.
Mark
The correct refund you are entitled to under EC 261/2004 due to a downgrade is as follows:
Article 10
Upgrading and downgrading
1. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class higher than that for which the ticket was purchased, it may not request any supplementary payment.
2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), reimburse
(a) 30 % of the price of the ticket for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less, or
(b) 50 % of the price of the ticket for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, except flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres, or
(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling under (a) or (b), including flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments.
You are entitled to 75% of the price of the ticket as in 2.(c) above as you flight was over 3500 kms.
Article 10
Upgrading and downgrading
1. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class higher than that for which the ticket was purchased, it may not request any supplementary payment.
2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), reimburse
(a) 30 % of the price of the ticket for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less, or
(b) 50 % of the price of the ticket for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, except flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres, or
(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling under (a) or (b), including flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments.
You are entitled to 75% of the price of the ticket as in 2.(c) above as you flight was over 3500 kms.
IINAL but doesn't this law relate to 'class' i.e. First, Business, Premium Economy, Economy etc? I assume from the OP comments that they lost their 'premium seats' the OP had bought an economy ticket with a seat upgrade? Would this law then apply as Thomson could argue that the only refund is the cost of the seat upgrade and not 75% of the flight cost?
AHV , you are correct , charter flights do not have a class division (so to speak ) so all Thomson are required to do is refund the upgrade price not a %age of the overall cost of the flight.
Also sounds like it was not provided for only one leg ie 50% of the journey so the Op will be entitled to a refund of half of what they paid for the upgrade.
Also sounds like it was not provided for only one leg ie 50% of the journey so the Op will be entitled to a refund of half of what they paid for the upgrade.
Kerry25
This isn't what Thomson claim on their website concerning Premium Class however: http://www.thomson.co.uk/editorial/faqs/flights/seats.html
There is little or no difference between what Thomson publicise as a Premium Class and what a scheduled airline purports to offer as a differential in class.
Therefore I maintain (and there have been cases found in favour of pax to support this) that EC 261/2004 applies to the Thomson Premium Class downgrade as much as to any other Class downgrade.
I agree that if the downgrade was experienced on only the return leg then the refund is 75% of the return leg fare.
AHV , you are correct , charter flights do not have a class division (so to speak ) so all Thomson are required to do is refund the upgrade price not a %age of the overall cost of the flight.
Also sounds like it was not provided for only one leg ie 50% of the journey so the Op will be entitled to a refund of half of what they paid for the upgrade.
This isn't what Thomson claim on their website concerning Premium Class however: http://www.thomson.co.uk/editorial/faqs/flights/seats.html
There is little or no difference between what Thomson publicise as a Premium Class and what a scheduled airline purports to offer as a differential in class.
Therefore I maintain (and there have been cases found in favour of pax to support this) that EC 261/2004 applies to the Thomson Premium Class downgrade as much as to any other Class downgrade.
I agree that if the downgrade was experienced on only the return leg then the refund is 75% of the return leg fare.
Was there a class designator ("Y" or "C") on the ticket?
The reason given for the downgrade was 'technical issues' and we weren't informed until we were at the boarding gate.
We asked if we could go out on another flight and were told that we couldn't, but subsequently have read that because the delay was over 5 hours we should have been offered a refund which would have enabled us to fly at another time.
We've got an electronic ticket and it doesn't appear to have any designation on it.
Also, we weren't downgraded to standard economy, we were actually on a downgraded aircraft used for short haul flights, so in effect we were doubly downgraded!
We asked if we could go out on another flight and were told that we couldn't, but subsequently have read that because the delay was over 5 hours we should have been offered a refund which would have enabled us to fly at another time.
We've got an electronic ticket and it doesn't appear to have any designation on it.
Also, we weren't downgraded to standard economy, we were actually on a downgraded aircraft used for short haul flights, so in effect we were doubly downgraded!
Class also means a category letter if you like only applicable to schelduled flights eg y, c , w . This is relevant to not only the class but booking conditions , but charter flights are different completely .
The article you are discussing I believe only covers for flight only on scheldules or non charter , which I don t think applies in this case as it was booked as a package .
The article you are discussing I believe only covers for flight only on scheldules or non charter , which I don t think applies in this case as it was booked as a package .
We didn't book a holiday package, just the Premium flights.
We've found this on the same EU Regulation -
Since the distinction between scheduled and non-scheduled
air services is weakening, such protection should
apply to passengers not only on scheduled but also on
non-scheduled flights, including those forming part of
package tours.
So really confused now.
We've found this on the same EU Regulation -
Since the distinction between scheduled and non-scheduled
air services is weakening, such protection should
apply to passengers not only on scheduled but also on
non-scheduled flights, including those forming part of
package tours.
So really confused now.
Malone71
You have found the correct citation within the Regulation and should not be confused. There is no distinction between a charter flight and a scheduled flight for the purposes of the Regulation.
Do not be confused about class category designators either as you will find no reference to these in the Regulation either.
You have found the correct citation within the Regulation and should not be confused. There is no distinction between a charter flight and a scheduled flight for the purposes of the Regulation.
Do not be confused about class category designators either as you will find no reference to these in the Regulation either.
Thanks Cityboy62,
We thought we had it right, but there is a lot of conflicting information on the web but I had hoped the EU Regulation was definitive!
I have sent a letter of complaint to TUI, and I really hope they take it seriously and try and make some sort of recompense for what was quite frankly a horrific flight....not to mention the amount of lies we were told at the airport.
Thanks all for your thoughts and adivce.
We thought we had it right, but there is a lot of conflicting information on the web but I had hoped the EU Regulation was definitive!
I have sent a letter of complaint to TUI, and I really hope they take it seriously and try and make some sort of recompense for what was quite frankly a horrific flight....not to mention the amount of lies we were told at the airport.
Thanks all for your thoughts and adivce.
That regulation is correct, however, it cannot be applied for circumstances outside of the control of the airline ie technicial or weather issues so you may not be offered this. In any case, for this comp to be offered you should make reference to the regulation.
Heva2015
The 'circumstances outside of the control of the airline' you happen to mention do not apply in the case of Article 10 downgrading. If you are thinking about this:
3. An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
then that is Article 5.3 which refers to the possible compensation entitlement due to cancellation or delay of one's flight which was not the point at issue in this thread.
The 'circumstances outside of the control of the airline' you happen to mention do not apply in the case of Article 10 downgrading. If you are thinking about this:
3. An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
then that is Article 5.3 which refers to the possible compensation entitlement due to cancellation or delay of one's flight which was not the point at issue in this thread.
AHV , you are correct , charter flights do not have a class division (so to speak ) so all Thomson are required to do is refund the upgrade price not a %age of the overall cost of the flight.
I'm reasonably sure they do have a class division, or they wouldn't have to pay the same APD as business/first on scheduled airlines.
Sorry meant to also say that this regulation applies to all flights, including those connected to a a package holiday.
Ooops should learn to read properly!
You may not be entitled to any refund as Cityboy62 implies as these are only guide lines as stated in the regulation guide
(EC)261/2004
There is a presumption in the answers given below, that evaluation of an
incident by a National Enforcement Body (NEB) will be undertaken on a
case by case basis adopting in its assessment a test of whether the
action of a passenger, or an airline, may be considered reasonable in
the circumstances.
(EC)261/2004
There is a presumption in the answers given below, that evaluation of an
incident by a National Enforcement Body (NEB) will be undertaken on a
case by case basis adopting in its assessment a test of whether the
action of a passenger, or an airline, may be considered reasonable in
the circumstances.
You may not be entitled to any refund as Cityboy62 implies as these are only guide lines as stated in the regulation guide
(EC)261/2004
Regulation EC 261/2004 has full legal force across the EU and is not in any shape or form a set of 'guidelines'. It is the law and passengers have certain rights of remedy at common law to ensure the entitlements are upheld by the courts, usually small claims track of then county court.
If you have evidence to the contrary that the Regulation is a set of guidelines, then please may we have some evidence to back up your assertion.
And for the sake of clarity, most EU airlines, including Thomson, make reference to EC 261/2004 in their conditions of carriage: http://www.thomson.co.uk/editorial/legal/flight-conditions-of-carriage.html. Check out Article 9!
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