Bit more information if you can.

Who are you supposed to be flying with? What information is on your paperwork re this holiday? For example did you think you were going on a Thomson or Thos Cook holiday?

I note from their website that they are ABTA bonded so are a travel agent. That is what a TA does, put together a package holiday. It is possible they have booked flights and hotel separate to make this "package" Personally I think they are trying it on. They entered into a contract and cannot now fulfill it. As the accommodation is not available and they have booked the flights they are trying to get out from under. They will not have to pay for the hotel if not available.

It is quite possible some of our other members may be able to assist further but if not you might like to consider contacting Ros Fernihough who is a travel law solicitor and she often assists our members. Ros can be reached :-

The direct number to Ros's PA Pam is 01922 705134

Or try the switchboard number 01922 633214 and ask for Travel Dept.

fwh

FWH - Thank you.
On checking the paperwork we noted flights with Easy Jet and accommodation and transfers with On Holiday. We should have gone last Sat 20th. I was offered the options of either alternative accom or to cancel by the rep from their call centre.
I will do as suggested and contact Ros on Monday.
Thanks again

So they had put a package together for you which is what a Travel Agent does. A package holiday does not just have to be with a Tour Operator. At least that is my opinion. Ros will be able to advise you.

fwh

Hi who did you book this with.
Also it they put the package together and hold an atol licence they are your tour operator and its up to them to sort it for you.

Thank you both again.
I have looked again on their website Holidaydiscountcentre and they are both ABTA and Atol covered. What I really wanted to know was how long do they have to respond to a complaint letter please before I contact them again?
Will definitely speak to Ros hopefully tomorrow.

It's perhaps worth reminding ourselves what a 'package holiday' is -

The Package Travel, Package Holidays and Package Tours Regulations 1992

© Crown Copyright 1992

(The legislation contained on this web site - http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si1992/Uksi_19923288_en_1.htm is subject to Crown Copyright protection. It may be reproduced free of charge provided that it is reproduced accurately and that the source and copyright status of the material is made evident to users.)

"package" means the pre-arranged combination of at least two of the following components when sold or offered for sale at an inclusive price and when the service covers a period of more than twenty-four hours or includes overnight accommodation:—

(a) transport;

(b) accommodation;

(c) other tourist services not ancillary to transport or accommodation and accounting for a significant proportion of the package,

and
(i) the submission of separate accounts for different components shall not cause the arrangements to be other than a package;
(ii) the fact that a combination is arranged at the request of the consumer and in accordance with his specific instructions (whether modified or not) shall not of itself cause it to be treated as other than pre-arranged;

and

"retailer" means the person who sells or offers for sale the package put together by the organiser.

I agree with fwh, it looks like a package to me.

Peter

In my complaint letter I attached a copy of the The Package Travel, Package Holidays and Package Tours Regulations 1992. So hope they realise I'm being serious in my claim.

Have spoken to Pam, Ros's PA who was very helpful. Thinks it wasn't a package offered but will look at all my docs and do a legal assessment. Least we should get is the accommodation costs and compensation for the late notification of the overbooking. Have to give them 28 days to respond to complaint. Thanks to everyone who replied. Will let you know the outcome.

Whilst possibly not the result you would have liked many thanks for keeping us up to date.

fwh

fwh
Thanks
I wasn't expecting to get the full amount back but wanted clarity on what we were entitled to ask for, so pleased now I know what to aim for. Hopefully it will pay for a weekend away somewhere.

Sounds like it was 'dynamically packaged' to me. It's a minefield, and confusing, and as it comes from two separate suppliers is not necessarily a package.

There is no way you could know otherwise. Bizarrely it's the government and not the travel industry that are holding up attempts to end this practise.

I was reading this the other week, which implies there should be an ending to such practises: http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2008/09/11/28801/dynamic-packaging-and-atol-protection-what-happens-when-things-go.html

Travelling Sam
Dynamic package was mentioned this morning by Pam Ros's PA. First I've heard of it though. What makes me cross is that I booked over the phone with Holidaydiscountcentre but received all documentation from ULookUBook. They seem to have lots of aliases and appear to be ATOL bonded.
Have organised trips to Vegas and New York at least 5 times in past 3 years without any probs. Won't ever do this again. Been to Majorca at least 6 times in past 5 years too without any hassle. I will certainly look here in future before booking anything again.

Dynamic packages are causing a lot of problems for people, basically they are a agent booking two different parts of a holiday on your behalf from two different suppliers, they are not selling you a holiday, if they advertised a hotel and flight for x amount it would be a package. I think something needs to be done about dynamic packages or the agent should make it clear its a dynamic package and what it means legally, too many agents hide behind a dynamic package to get out of trouble. There is a flaw in consumer with dynamic package's. If you were mis-led to believe you were being sold a package thats an angle as well. I think it might be a case to ask is this a package holiday or a dynamic package.

This is the downside of DIY which a dynamic package is as well. I have booked with tour for the last few years for the security it gives you if something goes wrong and if the company goes bust, not only that I have found it increasing difficult to beat the tour ops prices

One angle is to sue for breach of contract and include the cost of the flight as part of your loss, or you could of gone booked into a hotel of your choice and on return send them the bill and again under breach of contract.

Just a quick update.
No response as yet from Holidaydiscountcentre but I have had a letter from Ros Fernihough with details as to what I need to send her in order to do the evaluation as to whether the complaint is valid. Returned all the docs to her yesterday and await the outcome.

Letter from Ros received today.
Seems it was a dynamic package and therefore can only claim accommodation costs back. Very big lesson learned and hopefully others take notice too. Be careful what and how you book a holiday. I thought I was getting a 'package' when I booked. Will never do this again. I feel like a naughty child for not checking what I was booking, but the TO and TA's don't make it easy to understand. Life certainly is a learning curve.
Oh well you learn from mistakes. Good job it wasn't £1000's or I would be really cross. I still haven't heard from Holidaydiscount centre and the 28 days are up next week so will chase them for the accommodation refund even if it's only £200 as this will go towards a weekend away.
Thanks to everyone for their help and comments.

thanks for getting back to us- even more so as it wasn't with the reply you wanted to make.

How terrible. I would suggest you report them to ABTA anyway for not being clear about giving you a DIY holiday when you made your booking.

In the T&C's it actually says

ATOL
The holidays and flights advertised on this site are ATOL protected by the Civil Aviation Authority, and we act as agents for licensed tour operators. ATOL protection extends primarily to customers who book and pay in the United Kingdom.

Clearly misleading information to have if they sell non atol protected air holidays.

I've discovered that if a flight and a hotel is sold seperately (eg. choose a flight at £100 and then you choose a hotel at £50) this is NOT classed as a package holiday, even if at the end it says Total cost £150! If it said £150 for the flight & hotel then this would be a package holiday.

I've also noticed that this is the practice for most online travel agents. Travel Repbublic, OTbeach, Hays Travel, Holiday Hypermarket (part of Thomson) are just a few other who do this.

This means these agents are still travel agents and don't become a tour operator and your flight and hotel are operatored by two suppliers so if one element goes wrong the other supplier is not obliged to do anything. You will also notice in their T&Cs that you are invoiced seperately confirming it's not a package. It's just like you chosing a flight with Easyjet and then going to another website and booking your hotel with travelodge, and then Travelodge saying "we have overbooked you" - Easyjet will still charge their normal fees if you want to cancel the flight.

However, some of these agents also sell package holidays, but as 'an agent' on behalf of the tour operator or 'ATOL holder'. This is why the whole situation is confusing.

Even for bonding issues ATOL doesn't seem to work. Freedom Direct who recently went bust had an ATOL as it sold flights and hotels as one but the CAA have refused to pay some customers out (See travelrants.com)!

To me it looks like the travel agents and tour operators are keeping in line with the regulations but it's the regulations that need sorting out. ABTA & the CAA (who issue ATOLs) are in disagreement over the issue and until they (or the government) deal with it, what joy will we have?? See this re: ABTA vs CAA...ww.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=61139&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=2576280&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=2576280&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=2576280&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=2576280&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=2576280&articleTitle=Abta%27s%20agent%20Atol%20plan%20%27would%20be%20a%20disaster%27

I hope this helps.