Thinking about buying abroad - use an established agent

vicyvon

2005-06-22 07:11:55

Just wanted to add a note of caution/common sense (which we ourselves did not heed) so I am talking from experience here. That is always use a well established estate agent who has experience and references.

We have been lucky but recently we saw that one of the partners in the agency we bought through over 2.5 years ago has skipped the country with 100,000 euros of customers cash

Luckily for us one of the partners in our agency was honest and told us as soon as he could that there were problems, ie his partner was pocketing cash from the client account and was being investigated by the police. That particular agency was closed down, but it seems that the dishonest agent then went on to form another agency and was able to get away with other people's hard earned cash. This was reported last week in the Tenerife News (don't know how to post a link).

What I am really saying is that when dealing with agents a few thousand miles away, who are dealing with your money - always chose a big, long established agent with references. Don't let your heart rule your head.

This post is meant to advise/inform potential buyers of the risks they could be taking if they are not careful. Hope it helps, but can't help feeling extremely sorry for those people who lost money through this rogue - it could have been us

PeterRayner

2005-06-22 07:16:33

Estate Agents

Sounds like a close call :shock:

Which agency were you with???

Peter

Edited by PeterRayner 2005-06-22 07:26:48

PeterRayner

2005-06-22 07:26:09

Have posted the link to the Tenerife News article

http://www.tenerifenews.com/cms/front_content.php?client=1&lang=1&idcat=8&idart=1949

Bert Preast

2005-06-22 08:29:39

I'm an estate agent in Spain, and have seen this happen even with large and established agencies.

The lesson to be drawn here is don't give your money to an estate agent. Most are in rented offices and have no assets and many move to whichever country is considered "hot" every few years. I'm watching my competitors upping sticks and heading for Turkey, Croatia and Bulgaria right now.

If you have to pay a deposit, lodge it with your lawyer (who should never be the one the agent recommends). Any reputable agent should have no problems with this.

jacky

2005-06-22 08:45:53

Bert, I said something similar on this forum about getting your own lawyer and not using the agents in-house services but it didn't seem to go down very well. When its your first purchase and live in the UK its very easy to latch on to an agents "services" but most of the employees work on a commission only basis so you have to ask yourself whats in it for them.

Bert Preast

2005-06-22 08:58:43

It's all too easy to just trust the estate agent to sort out a lawyer. If a lawyer charges 1% the estate agent usually gets half that as a kickback. Same for mortgage companies. What the lawyers are doing is illegal - but as long as they only do it to foreigners, no one minds because you see, nobody ever finds out.

There exists in Spain a regulatory body for lawyers, and all that's required is to report malpractice to them - but it's all too much like hard work for 95% of foreigners, so they don't bother. They just let the next people get ripped off, too.

It's not too difficult to find an independent lawyer who speaks your language if you have the internet. Get one that works for you, not the estate agent who buys him a new Mercedes every year.

The agents mostly work on a commission only basis, yes. They need your money to survive, otherwise they'll have to find a proper job. Don't trust a single word they say.

bryn

2005-06-22 10:05:02

Bert as an agent here in Turkey(owner of business) I agree with a lot of what you say, but and its a big but, the buyer ultimately has to trust someone to do the transaction and Lawyers are also open to corruption. The buyer is between a rock and a hard place in a lot of cases and has to use instinct/previous reference/research to find an agent. Here in Turkey they have introduced a course which we all have to do but as I have said it doesent teach honesty or integrity and its also becoming clear that the course certificates are already being sold prooving that very point. I would like to see a proper regulatory body here, but I fear that will be a long way away and,sadly, too late for a lot of people. If you read through previous posting you will find a few agents out here that are advising caution etc in the process and not trying to trust villas at the enquirers.

Norman Marshall

2005-06-22 10:28:53

buying in turkey

Hi read your comments yes you do have to trust someone, but you also have to watch out for not only the turkish but also the ex pats here some cannot be trusted as everywhere you go there are good and bad, ensure you don't jump straight in at the first property find a few locals who have moved and read between the lines on what agents and lawyers tell you. also have a look at web sites to see about management as these companies look after home owners once they have paid for the property and been left high and dry on all the other things you need to do here like pay house tax etc

Edited by Bawbee to remove advertising.

Bert Preast

2005-06-22 10:49:03

Bryn: I said "don't trust a single word they say".

If you can get them to write it down on letterheaded paper and sign and date it, you can maybe trust them a little bit.

Norman Marshall

2005-06-22 10:57:40

don't trust a word

hi Bryn

you have to trust someone sometime its the same as in the uk only here the laws and paperwork are different, even if you get it in blood there are no promises in life, so do the leg work and trust someone, not all of us are out to rip people off there are genuine companies here in turkey as well as all over the world!

mibut

2005-06-22 13:48:30

Can I just point out that the vast majority of property sales go through without any problems.
Unfortunately you do not hear as much about the thousands of sales that go through where the buyers are completely satisfied.

bryn

2005-06-22 14:55:06

Mibut is quite right the only ones people hear about are the ones that go wrong. I would just like to add on the subject of believing agents, I always point out to my clients things like, if they buy a villa with a sea view that the view is only until someone builds in front of you, etc etc. They get honesty from me and we turn down as much property as we accept because it is overpriced or poor quality or in many cases we have no trust in the developer, because he said one thing and then did another. We are in the position to be choosey as there is plenty of housing stock out there.

Bert Preast

2005-06-22 15:48:37

I hear you Bryn, but as I said earlier I'm watching my competitors head off to your neck of the woods right now.

They are the ones who worked in timeshare in Spain 10 years back, then moved into real estate and used their hard closing tactics to sell people disasterous off plan stuff here. They lie, steal and bully - and you'll find that you have to work very hard not to get tarred with the same brush. It's not easy to compete with people who throw 50 grand at marketing every month.

Maybe I'm just bitter and twisted, but when I read the massive adverts warning buyers not to work with smaller agents because they're unethical, made by companies who charge more than twice the commission I do - and whose salesman have no idea of tax issues or legal problems - I find myself wondering whether there's any point in carrying on. Maybe I should just open a pub.

bryn

2005-06-22 15:57:57

I know what you mean Bert, they are starting to come here and they dont mind slagging off the small guys to get a sale, we just have to keep our integrity and hope that we can raise awareness through forums like this. Hows Malaga havent been for ages (I was in Gib for 2.5 years in the RN)I used to enjoy getting up the coast for golf and weekends off.

Bert Preast

2005-06-22 16:41:33

Blimey mate, you must have really upset the bosses for the mob to strand you in Gib for 2 and a half years!

vicyvon

2005-06-22 19:48:01

Thanks for posting the link Peter .

With regard to the solicitor, quite a long time after our agent folded we found ourselves an English speaking solicitor. As we were already dealing directly with Gomasper he was quite happy to carry on with that arrangement, so any monies to be paid go directly into Gomasper's account. We are quite happy with this arrangement as there is no middle man to deal with.

At the time of buying our property we would have done so through Horizon and again been quite happy to use their solicitors etc, but at that time Horizon had a waiting list for resales - this was the week after the apartments went on sale!!

As Mibut says, the vast majority of property sales go through without any problems. And no you do not hear as much about the thousands of sales that go through where the buyers are completely satisfied - just wanted to let anyone new to buying know about one problem which we came across

Over the past 3 years we have kept a close eye on the property market in Tenerife and there have been dozens of new agencies opening up. They all seem to say that they have ** many years of trading as if they have been there for ever.

spook

2005-06-22 22:22:56

Newly formed agency partnerships sometimes combine their personal trading experiences to accumulate a more 'impressive' figure. A recently formed threesome in Tenerife did just this. However, I believe it goes back to bryn's point of individual integrity. Genuine or dishonest agents are not classified by the number of years or even weeks in business. Not all new agencies are out to rip clients off. Large companies are not exempt from unscrupulous behaviour. It really is a case of buyer beware
and if you have any doubts walk away. If you are pressured in any way - walk away. All this said, there are roques always ready to expoilt the property market and this unfortunate practice will continue in many countries indefinitely.

bryn

2005-06-23 09:53:31

Thanks Spook this is what we are constantly saying to people on this forum.

Bert I upset loads of the bosses in the RN because I told them the truth and not what they wanted to hear

But I got to the dizzy heights of Warrant Officer 2 in spite of it :lol:

Bert Preast

2005-06-23 10:28:43

My acting Lance Corporal pales in comparison.

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