Very good to see a response from someone in the know with the same airline. Butterchickengirl, my comments re safety training and selling of goods was based on my experience from one airline then this from another - I of course realise that good customer service is far more prevalent than bad in all the airlines I have flown with - which includes Thomas Cook. The experience I had was no big deal but your post kind of made me understand that the staff at the time probably saw me and my fella as the laid back types that we are and gave the two scared ladies more attention at the time.

On the issue of selling things though - with the introduction of having to pay for so many things which used to be inclusive (I'm not referring to TC here solely of course) such as checking in, baggage etc. it's often no more expensive to book a scheduled flight. I was delighted with the service of Tarom (Romania's national airline) earlier this year. Meal included, drinks included (yes really!), nothing being sold whatsoever, no repeated messages from captain or cabin staff, no requests for money for charity and on the way back as it was easter monday, a little chocolate bunny for all of us with our coffee. Marvellous and had I booked on its own would not have paid more than with any of the budget or no frills airlines.

I am NOT getting at TC here, but I honestly don't believe all the hard sell is necessary.

Sometimes I believe the hard sell isnt needed also. And quite frankly we shouldnt be hard selling, but us, like every other business have targets to meet, you should have seen this summers targets...money you couldnt make up. It remains to be seen whether or not we've managed it. I recently flew with a scheduled airline, who virtually offered all we did, including a charity collection, but of course, it was a 'free drink' flight. When I got home I checked out how much said ticket would have cost the public to buy, the price would have paid for a 2 week all inclusive holiday in the carribean, it made my eyes water a little lol.
If we dont make our targets, then we dont fly, as the customer will choose to fly with someone else, then redundancies will happen, then we're out of a job, and adding to our countries already burgeoning jobless figures. We're also assessed on how we interact with selling techniques etc, its 90% of our job, the other 10% I hope never have to use. And if we fail assessments we dont get kept on. Then we are jobless again.
You also have to remember fuel here is extortionately priced compared to other countries, the majority of it going on tax, so therefore of course prices will be higher to fly than some of our european friends.
I think the days of all inclusive flying in the UK are sadly, long gone, just look at BA who now charge for seats together. Theyve seen how much money charter companies make from these little things and are probably trying to claw back after years of give give give. Theres only so much money in the pot, and with flying opening up to people on smaller incomes, there has to be an option for them also.
Its hard for crew to balance selling with providing good customer service, believe me, the conversations we have with people seem to indicate they want drinks on tap, a decent meal, and a cracking selection of duty free, now on the face of this it would seem an easy thing to deliver, but remember if drinks were on tap the price of your ticket would go thru the roof, we're not a restaurant, we can only give you what meals our ovens can cook, and duty free, whilst a good selection still has to advertised over the PA as you wouldnt believe how many people refuse to read the prices themselves.

The airline you flew on, how many drinks services were completed?
How long was the flight?
How many crew were you with?
And also how many passengers?

Ill give you an example.
A sharm el sheikh on a 757. 235 passengers, 5 hours 20 mins. 6 crew.
On a flight that length we cant be seen to only offer one drinks service, its not in the best interests of us or indeed the passengers... especially the passengers who are sat in the window and cant get out if they want a drink. So we give them what they want. It also gives us a chance to get out into the cabin and chat with our passengers, have a laugh with them, get to know them. Hardly any drinks service is completed on any flight where someone doesnt want a drink at all. Strange in this frugal day and age, but true.
So thats 39 passengers per crew member to serve.
Now on a normal scheduled service you get less passengers and more crew, and because they make no commission on the sales of such goods, theres no incentives to get someone a drink... try flying a certain red airline which are notorious for doing one drinks service on a 10 hour flight. We do 3 sometimes 4, and between services often get drinks for customers on the spot. If we did 1 drinks on a 10 hr, we'd be lynched, believe me, it happens...and has happened.

Im glad I can be of some help, Im of the way of thinking that if you need to know something you just ask, and I would prefer our customers got on, informed instead of remaining in a state of confusion throughout the flight, most of us are pretty happy to tell you about our job, all you need to do is ask.

So if you need anymore info etc Im here. x

Well I'm not so bothered about forking out for extras, if I want a drink etc I can buy them and thats fine. I think it's good if I have the chance to do so several times on a flight. I don't often buy from the duty free but it's quite nice to have the option and I think for some people it's all part of the journey. I like having the option to add luggage, food and choose my seat (when it works lol). There are times when I choose to fly with just hand luggage and so it makes my flight cheaper. I'm off to visit a friend in Germany soon and will fly with Ryanair, just hand luggage and it's great. The flight is cheap and if I want the extras I can buy them. I'll have 2 nights with my friend and will not need to take much. I never feel oblidged to buy anything on these flights but it's nice they are there. I don't feel there is any hard selling going on and I fly many times a year with loads of airlines scheduled, economy and charter. The most important things for me are that I get to my destination safely and more or less on time, in reasonable comfort and that I get what I have paid for.

The only thing I actually resent is having to pay to check in. Cos I can't NOT check in can I? I recall it was earlier this year with Jet2. Either £8 to check in online or £18 to check in at the airport or something like that. If it's unavoidable then it should be in the ticket price.

The only thing I actually resent is having to pay to check in. Cos I can't NOT check in can I?

Very true, so how did they get away with that little swindle.?.... It's so nice to know that we're being screwed and if nobody checked in because they refused to pay for something that is a necessary part of air travel, where would the empty plane go.?
It makes me lose all hope when I hear that dreaded word TARGETS and the incentives/commission to sell alcohol, even though you should not drink alcohol at altitude, and the airlines are being hypocrites when they have a zero tolerance policy.

The world is upside down when targets come before customers"¦..as the Spanish say " Somos la gente" (WE are the people)

Just an observation/opinion and not directed at anybody.

Sanji

I am sure I am not alone in saying, but I go to work to make money to keep a roof over my head? I am cabin crew myself and although I don't always agree with the 'hard sell', if it is going to increase my monthly salary, well so be it.
You can guarantee that the passengers you are serving have worked hard to pay for their trip, pushing sales, meeting targets, we are only doing the same, just in a different environment.
Give me charter over scheduled anyday.

more training required on safety and customer service and less on selling snacks and fancy goods is required

Everybody goes to work to keep a roof over their head, and all I'm saying is, that I don't agree with the idea that my flight is an opportunity for the airline to hard sell at me for three hours and knowing they have a captive audience, and it's reminiscent of other recent experiences of consumer capitalism's aggressive pushiness. IE: the banks, and look where that got them.?

Getting up at stupid o'clock hours for a flight and hoping to snatch a few catnaps during the flight is impossible these days, because over the tannoy you are constantly bombarded with the sell techniques"¦"¦buy headphones for the film, buy snacks & meals (which are hyped up and described in the most ludicrous detail,) buy booze, perfume and cuddly toys, take your chance on scratch cards, and finally they even came begging for the 'foreign' shrapnel out of my pocket for some wild life charity.

Targets? Public sector workers work hard and have targets to meet, my dustbin man provides a service, he and the crew have to reach a target and empty x amount of bins per day, but at least he doesn't wake me up to try and sell me some perfume to make either myself or the dustbin smell sweet, or some insurance just in case the bin liners split.

Whatever happened to customer care ‘first and foremost'? In a day and age where most businesses operate within a ‘cut-throat' industry, airlines should be regarding passengers as privileged people, but instead they have just become sitting ducks for the hard sell.

I quite understand why they cut the price of the core element to attract passengers away from the competition, and all the other ‘add ons' is where they are making up their revenue, but I pay for a service and instead of spending time coming down the aisle to try and flog me stuff and boost the cabin's crew salaries, which from my observation tends to send most passengers into another stratosphere, I'd rather they spend the time coming down the aisle giving me the opportunity to purchase another cup of tea, because you can't drink scratch cards, perfume and cuddly toys.

Just my opinion.
Sanji

On one flight a couple of years ago the seatbelt sign came on because of turberlance. After an hour or so a woman got up to use the loo, the cabin crew told her in no uncertain terms to sit back down. The woman tried to explain that she couldn't - she would wet herself, she was terribly embarassed but did go and sit down, where she started crying, we all felt so sorry for her.
Two minutes later the crew came round with a drinks service! The passengers went mad - how could they start selling drinks when they wouldn't allow passengers to use the loo? and how come it was safe for them to walk up and down the aisle during turberlance (with pots of boiling water for tea/coffee) whilst it wasn't deemed safe for that poor woman to go to the toilet. The cabin crew took the trolley back to the galley where after a minute or so the seat belt sign was switched off and they resumed the trolley sevice. Nobody bought anything though, we were all so disgusted at the treatment they had given this woman we wouldn't buy anything.

I can really lock onto the above post as i was on a BA flight from Dubai and i had a really bad stomach problem and i need the loo i was told the same but have to admit it was so bad i carried on anyway,main reason I had no clean Trousers in my carry on luggage and belive me i would have needed them.
I took the full brunt of an irate crew member on my exit from the loo.

Coming home on a night flight this week I was tapped on the arm and woken up to be asked by the crew if I wanted breakfast
I told her it was the middle of the night and I had spent the last 2 weeks eating and no I dont want a breakfast as i didnt order one.
This was 4.30am!
They must load more meals on the planes as not many people these days order them.
I am sure I wasnt the only one woken on that flight.

You may of not ordered one however one could of been loaded for you if you were flying on a charter airline sometimes if you book a package deal and fly with a non "in house" airline(i.e. Thomas cook holiday, but fly Monarch) one is included although you may not see it on your summary. Also the check in clerk can overide meals booked and type by accident or delibrately although they won't be on board. The excess meals were probably because many like you didn't want to eat the inedible sausage and rubber egg that airlines insist on serving these days.

But my main point for replying back is, as cabin crew we have a problem, when food is specifically paid as opposed to free/complimentary meals like BA/Virgin Atlantic) for and ordered we cannot ignore that request or purchase. As soon as we don't offer it you/your fellow travellers invariably will get a tongue lashing 20minutes after clearing all the meals away and disposing them because you wanted your meal. Contrary to public belief cabin crew are not onboard to make customers life awkward or harder by waking you up or stopping you use the loo. There is always a reason why we do something even if it appears to be a nuisence.

I once had to catch a gentleman who ignored the seatbelt sign, along with another customer who during turbulance nearly fell on a 9month old baby. He wouldn't of been injured however that little baby boy could of been seriously hurt or killed the size of the man in question he had already argued with me that he didn't mind being hurt "and he'd take the risk" but you need to seriously think about the other 200 or so on an aircraft that you could injure because your ignoring the crew(and captains instructions) you would be liable and the first question your insurance company would as "were the seatbelt signs on"....

(crew comming out with carts whilst the seatbelt signs are on is another thing, if the lights on the crew should be in the galley or better in their own seats, and certainly not out with hot pots/carts)

I was on a Thomas Cook package on a Thomas Cook plane and wasnt impressed at being woken at 4.30am
I thought the crew had a list with the passengers names on who had pre ordered meals
On an outbound flight in May my husband bought one of the extra meals which was so bad he couldnt eat it.
He isnt fussy and can eat for England but it was inedible.
I think Thomas Cook are the worst for selling non stop since they stopped the IFE.
The trolleys are non stop up and down the aisle from taking off until landing
Thank goodness for Boots meal deals!

A bit of common sense is sometimes needed by both passengers and cabin crew.

I have the misfortune to be a sufferer of irritable bowel syndrome and know full well that if I had a bad attack whilst flying I would not be able to wait until the seat belt signs went off - when I need the loo I need the loo NOW!

I am not flying at the moment - preferring to holiday in this country by car as I am not having a good time with the IBS and don't get quite so anxious if I am not flying.

Pippa

BY-TOM-AMM-FCA wrote:

Contrary to public belief cabin crew are not onboard to make customers life awkward or harder by waking you up or stopping you use the loo. There is always a reason why we do something even if it appears to be a nuisence.

But remember there are no difficult customers , because the customer is always right !! which is exactly the attitude that the people who took the OP's seats had. They refused to co-operate or listen to the cabin crew , they thought they could just do what they wanted and it was their "right" to do what they liked and stuff anyone else.
Of course customers are in the right if they recieve poor service or substandard goods to complain , but there are a few who believe they are right all the time because they are a customer. I'm sure cabin crews have to deal with these type of people from time to time , the two cabin crew posters who have posted on this thread have given honest and straightforward views and i doubt its an easy job sometimes, yet its easy to be critical of the way they do their job.
I've never personally recieved any poor service inflight , but seen the odd awkward passenger.
I hope JMK gets a satisfactory conclusion and TC acknowledge their loss , but also the fact that they acted respectfully towards the crew and pilot and did not lower themselves to the behaviour and obnoxious attitude of the people who took their pre-booked seats.

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