Flight Only / Airline and Airports

Discussions relating to flight only, airlines and airports.
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Again very re-assuring.

My problems starting years ago when hubby and I first met and we went to the Caribbean. Basically we fly over the remains of a Hurricane at 40,000 ft. The turbulence we encountered that day in September was terrifying,and it lasted for a what seems an eternity,the aircraft was tossed about like a balloon and even the cabin crew sat mortified. These days I get on with it for the sake of the kids,or at least try too,but that one incident has left a deep scar on my time spent in the air. I understand air-travel is way safer than driving,but whenever turbulence starts,no matter how insignificant,I get flashbacks to that incident and it seems to have a knock on effect with everything related to that particular flight.

It's my problem...I just dont talk about it much.
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Rotterdam,

I think many would have a fear after an experience like that so it's not surprising. I know it must have been quite an experience, but take some possitives from it. Other than the discomfort, where there any other problems? Aircraft are designed and tested to withstand anything they will encounter while inflight, and have lost of redundancy built in to them. Aircraft are designed to cope with the most severe turbulence and the wings are tested and have to meet a minimum of 150% the maximum structural load they are likely to encounter. Seeing wing testing when they are pushed to the design limit and beyond is pretty amazing, it's hard to think they can bend and take the punishment they can before anything starts to break, well in excess of anything you are likely to encounter inflight. Although it may seem like the aircraft is being thrown all over the place, in really it's only a few feet. Of course there are extreme cases, but these are very rare. Because you effectively lose visual perception when you're in the passenger cabin, ie you see something static infront of you rather than the fact you are moving quickly, your other senses become hightened, particularly your balance system in the inner ear and hearing itself. When the aircraft moves, you're fooled in to thinking you're moving more than you are. The best way to show this is just after take off, a typical aircraft may be climbing at about 10 degrees nose-up. Once you're in to a positive climb and you don't need as much thrust from the engines, and for noise abatement reasons at many airport, the climb rate is reduced and the engines throttle back. You'll hear a reduction in engine noise and then you'll feel as if the aircraft is starting to descent for a few seconds, then climb again. It's amazing how worried people get at that point because the engines get quieter and you feel a 'descent'. What is actually happened is the climb rate is reducing and the body feels as if it's going down because the g-force pushing the body in to the seat redues slightly, then equalises as the climb rate settles again. You aren't descending, you're just ascending at a slower rate but it doesn't feel like you are. Couple that with the engines getting quieter, it panics people. It's a good example of a fear becuase of a lack of knowledge about what is going on. What I'm getting at is the body overcompensates for the situation and things aren't generally as bad as you feel / think they are but you still become aprehensive about it. When you encounter turbulance, you may only move a couple of feet at most, but you think it's 10's of feet.

Turbulance is generally predictable and crews will switch on seat belt sins and avoild known areas to make cabin comfort as good as possible. But clear air turbulance can be encountered at any time, the reason you are advised to always keep your seat belt on even when the signs are switched off. Just keep them on lightly. There are countless examples, some recent of aircraft encountering severe turbulance where passengers and cabin crew have been injurred when the aircraft has been buffeted and those with no seat belts and cabin crew going about their duties have been knocked off their feet. These things happen and although rare, are part of flying. The main thing to remember, the aircraft can cope with it and although it may be a little uncomforbable, it's generally not as bad as it feel.

Darren

EDIT: I've just seen in the news exactly what we've been discussing. 20 Hurt In Severe Turbulence Over Alaska on Yahoo / Sky News. I bet those injurred were not wearing seat belts even though it's advised.
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Dazbo,

No further mishaps with the flight although the galley near where we sat was a mess from memory. Happily the Aircraft landed safely but the damage had been done to more than just me I suspect. Hubby dealt with it well but some terrified passengers tried confronting the flight crew at the Airport and got told it was as bad it it comes.

Lets hope our Onur Air flight to Turkey goes well,night flight so will be easier for me.

must dash.
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Your flight to Turkey will be fine. You'll normally experience a bit of turbulance when crossing the alps about 2.5 hours in to the flight (depending where you are departing from) but apart from that, it should be smooth :tup

Darren
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I have flown all over the world Thailand , Sri Lanka etc, then coming back from Florida 10 years ago , we encountered some terrifying turbulence , went on for a couple of hours, my daughter among several adults was vomiting , other people were crying , the air hostesses looked really worried , it was very scarey , the aircraft, 747-200 then , felt at times it was on a freefalll, then would just stop with a huge bang, then it was bouncing up and down.
A few years later , I flew to the Dom Rep, 3 times in one year, then we booked a holiday to Barbados, trailed all the way to Gatwick we didnt even get to check in, told my then girlfriend I wasnt getting on , that was it , money down the pan.It happened again in Feb 2006 going to Goa, got to manchester , didnt board the plane, money lost, my girlfriend was getting really fed up at this rate (she couldnt understand why Id been 3 times to the Dom Rep with her then refused to board flights with her afterwards, she began thinking it was her.
We booked to go to Red Sea in May 2006 3months after the Goa episode, I boarded the plane, no problems, flown to the Canaries since, then 28th Feb this year on what should of been a 2week all inclusive holiday to Goa ...again, pre booked seats etc...we got to the airport , I didnt board again, money lost all over again.£6800 in total Ive lost (my own money and paying my girlfriend out)
I feel like a complete idiot, I come home and cry and want to kill myself, I tell my girlfriend, I feel like Ive let her down, she is very patient with me, she was not on the flight 10 years ago coming back from Florida , so she doesnt know how I feel , bit she is very understanding. I did read if you were once a confident flyer and are now fearing it , its known as a learned fear.
I havent been to the docs, but I am going to go in future, because I cant let this ruin my and my girlfriends life.
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manaja, good grief,after reading your post I consider myself lucky. I have been posting on here a while now and have never mentioned my fear. I am severly claustrophobic and after an episode in Lanzarote many years ago where we were allowed to board and then told that we were delayed for 3 hours I totally flipped (but very discreetly). I quietly asked the cabin crew, if they were going to shut the doors, the reply was yes as if a slot comes available then we will take it. I must add they were absolutely fantastic and offered me a brandy, which i refused (then i realised how bad i was :rofl ) .. I then told them that I would have to get off as I could not sit closed in a plane for 3 hours not moving anywhere. To cut a long story short I was allowed to sit on the steps outside until we could take off, once we did take off we flew over an electrical storm which was spectacular. I then didnt fly for 6 years. Ok, i thought enough is enough and i went for counselling which looking back was successful. We booked a flight to Menorca, Friday 13th( no problem there) check in desk 13 (no problem there) paper on the seat across the aisle "13 reasons why not to fly on Friday 13th" no problem there also. Had a fantastic flight, extra legroom, which does help space-wise and hey presto, cured. We now travel at least 3 times a year and (wait for it) my only problem now is, when we land and everyone gets up out of their seats and gets their hand luggage down and stands in the aisle. I put my iPod on and sit still with my eyes closed until i feel the rush of fresh air and i then know that the doors are open..Everyone thinks i am strange as they all say that is the best moment for them when they have landed. Try counselling, until my experience ive always frowned upon it but it does work. Also why not try a short haul flight just to get you back into flying. Hope this helps a little as although your fear is totally different to mine, everyones fear seems bad to themselves. Good luck.
Linsi
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ive been on planes for pretty much 20 years now! as a kid flying never bothered me, until we started flying to the states and encountered some pretty rough turbulence and some bad delays...... all the noises used to worry me a lot!

since then ive done a degree in aviation and i must say that helped alot knowing how such a large and heavy plane stays in the sky!! puts my mind at ease! still get a bit nervous now and again on take-off, guessing thats my addrenilin! should clear up soon as im starting for cabin crew from LBA with jet2 soon!

i still get nervous with turbulence, but a friend once told me to see it as a bumpy bus ride through pendle and it eased my mind for sure haha .
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Thanks Linsi, yeah Ive done a few short haul flights since , im actually booked in to go see a counsellor we have at work, its in my own time , so im hoping it helps me, weve actually booked a holiday for the 5th july for a week in Gran Canaria, so I'l be testing the waters again.... Its an awful thing, the fear I have , it encompasses ,not being in control, claustrophobia and general worry if were going to encounter anything, Im going to have to sort it out, I just feel useless at times...you know if you ever saw me and and knew what im capable of doing and have done to grown men you wouldnt think it of me to look at me that it was the same person writing this lol ! Ive boxed and played rugby and taken the sport off the field too, Ive worked on some of the doors in Leeds and for a while down in Birmingham , Ive worked in Rasta clubs where Ive been the only white doorman and theyve been pulling guns out on each other, B,ham and Manchester to name a couple of hotspots ... Ive never met a bloke that bothers me, but this is just something I cant beat (so my girlfriend says !) It really does bother me .So I made an appointment to see the counsellor, took a lot of effort to admit to myself( I did have real issues with this), but theres so much I want to do and see still , I want to go to Jamaica next year , so going to have to beat this !
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crikey manaja, after reading your post I am sure now that you will beat this. You must keep us updated as to how you get on and dont give up on the counselling even if you think it is a bit strange and not getting you anywhere cos trust me over time it will.
Good luck. :tup
Linsi
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Cheers Linsi , thanks for the support , i'l let u know how things go on .
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Hi, i get a bit nervous when it comes to flying and it hasn't been helped by reading this article on Monarch's G-MONX plane - http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/48737-g-monx.html.
Im booked to fly on an A320 this year with Monarch- bearing in mind this article was written in 2002, the plane is now 8 years older than when the story was written! with all the technical faults its had in the past, how can it be safe to carry on flying it? :(
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well for a start take a look at the title of the link .pprune.org/rumours-news/48737-g-monx.html

these sort of stories appear quite regularly when there is little else for newspapers to speculate on, if you have taken the time to read through this topic you will see that with the stringent inspections and statutory maintenance, it doesn't matter if a an airframe is 2 years old or 22 years old they will not be allowed in the air if unfit to fly, add to this the highly trained flight crews who have homes and families so they will not risk taking up a kite that they are unsure of,

wizard
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Wizard HT Mod wrote:
well for a start take a look at the title of the link .pprune.org/rumours-news/48737-g-monx.html

these sort of stories appear quite regularly when there is little else for newspapers to speculate on, if you have taken the time to read through this topic you will see that with the stringent inspections and statutory maintenance, it doesn't matter if a an airframe is 2 years old or 22 years old they will not be allowed in the air if unfit to fly, add to this the highly trained flight crews who have homes and families so they will not risk taking up a kite that they are unsure of,

wizard


Thanks for the reassurance wizard, i guess with all the regular inspections 99.9% of aircraft are safe - ill just make sure i dont watch any more Air Crash Investigtion! lol
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nickappel,

The fact the aircraft is still in the air and used on a daily basis answers your question really! Monarch Engineering who maintain Monarch aircraft are regarded as the best in the business and many other airlines throughout europe send their aircraft to them to look after. All aircraft, from brand new to 30 years old have problems from time to time. Commercial aircraft are incredibly complex machines. Even the brand new Airbus A380 are having a few teething problems. I wouldn't worry. Aircraft go through system checks and one of the pilots carries out a visual walk-around before every flight to make sure the aircraft is 100% servicable. After all, it's their necks on the line as much as passengers and crew. In the event of a problem, the crew have seen it all before through training and know how to deal with pretty much every eventuality. Aircraft also have lots of redundancy built in to them so if a primary system fails, the secondory takes over and it that fails, the tertiary system. There's really nothing to worry about and as Wizard mentions, the press are known for scaremongering because it makes a good headline. Qantas for example are all over the media in Indonesia and Australia at the moment because of a few minor issues, for example an A380 bursting a couple of tires on landing. It was spectacular because the rims threw sparks in to the air when they made contact with the runway, but it's hardly a major problems (there was an underlying issue, but it was a non-event).

Darren
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Dazbo HT Mod wrote:
nickappel,

The fact the aircraft is still in the air and used on a daily basis answers your question really! Monarch Engineering who maintain Monarch aircraft are regarded as the best in the business and many other airlines throughout europe send their aircraft to them to look after. All aircraft, from brand new to 30 years old have problems from time to time. Commercial aircraft are incredibly complex machines. Even the brand new Airbus A380 are having a few teething problems. I wouldn't worry. Aircraft go through system checks and one of the pilots carries out a visual walk-around before every flight to make sure the aircraft is 100% servicable. After all, it's their necks on the line as much as passengers and crew. In the event of a problem, the crew have seen it all before through training and know how to deal with pretty much every eventuality. Aircraft also have lots of redundancy built in to them so if a primary system fails, the secondory takes over and it that fails, the tertiary system. There's really nothing to worry about and as Wizard mentions, the press are known for scaremongering because it makes a good headline. Qantas for example are all over the media in Indonesia and Australia at the moment because of a few minor issues, for example an A380 bursting a couple of tires on landing. It was spectacular because the rims threw sparks in to the air when they made contact with the runway, but it's hardly a major problems (there was an underlying issue, but it was a non-event).

Darren


thanks for that dazbo, im doubly reassured now! :)
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I suffer with claustrophobia and haven't flown for 5 years as I haven't had anyone to go away with/give reassurance and really daredn't go it alone.

I really miss my lovely beach holidays abroad in nice hotels and need to try to do something about it. Easier said than done!
I have several problems to overcome -
1. the further I get into an airport I get panicky as its away from 'air' and enclosed. Can't even go through rotating doors!
2. Going onto the flight has me in tears as I'm going into an enclosed environment. This can bring on a panick attack.
3. Once on the flight I then have the problem at the other end. When everyone stands up in aisle - feel enclosed/trapped and have to wait til its clear to get off.
4. Crowded shuttle buses other end.

Does anyone have any suggestions - or be willing to come on holiday with me!!! (only joking re the latter).
I know I won't get away unless I get on the flight, but the thought of doing so is sooo traumatic, I get panicky just thinking about it. But I'm missing out on so much - I'm only 46! Ok, that old!
I know that there are some single travel companies I could go with, so would prob be ok once I get to destination...only for the stress/worry/anxiety to start again for my return. aaaaaarggh.
I know of courses for nervous fliers but not for my situation.
Note: Used to love flying before these problems, it was part of the holiday.
Any help suggestions would be welcome. Thanks for reading!
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bubblychick,

Welcome onboard :tup
I'll come on holiday with you, any excuse for some sun and flying! I can't say I can help when it comes to claustrophobia as it's not something I've ever experienced. Maybe it's something your doctor may be able to help you with?

Darren
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bubblychick,
Hello, have a read of my post of the 14th March 2010 (not sure how to paste parts of the post in soz) but I think you will see that I had many similarities to you and that I have at least overcome the claustrophobia enough to fly, more than once a year too. But I still do book extra legroom seats whenever I can because that does help.

I'm sure there is "flight" at the end of the tunnel :rofl
Sorry couldnt resist that....but i do know how terrible this is.

Shuttle buses
Airbridges
Sitting next to the window on planes
Lifts
Sitting in the back of a 2 door car (totally unthinkable even now).
Fairground rides
The list is endless but I am drifting off topic now.

Good luck and I hope someone will come up with something that can help you.
Linsi
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Hi everyone,

I was wondering if someone could explain a bit about turbulance and what it is etc. I think if I understand it more that will help me as thats my biggest problem although am claustrophobic too but that doesn't outweigh my fear of heights.

I go away to turkey in a week and am so scared that I am sitting at work practically in tears thinking about it. My last flight was back from Mexico and it was awful - the plane felt like it was dropping for ever and people were crying and screaming. It didn't help that the pilot came over the radio and told people off for smoking in toilet and literally said "we are over a massive ocean - I can't land if there is a problem" then 10 mins later the turbulance kicked in. I was ok flying before that - didn't like it but could relax a bit and watch film or read book.

I honestly don't think I can do it - I think my husband is going to have to go with his family without me!!!

Thanks everyone
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