I would want to know whose guidelines exactly?

I would also have a word with Ros Fernihough and/or my local Trading Standards.

In short I wouldn't accept anything a travel agent or travel company told me about compensation calculations.

Why on earth would anyone want to endure flights and transfers for the purpose of having a lousy holiday?

Peter

Not seen the guidelines myself, but found an ABTA leaflet that seems to say the same http://www.abta.com/download/heretohelp.pdf

One thing to remember though, a guideline is a guide - if you can prove actuals then I suspect the outcome is going to be different. Thats the angle I will be taking.

Compensation, I've forgotten compensation for the loss of your valuable time off work, disappointment, and the work involved in pursuing your claim against them.

This is why you need professional advice.

Peter

I've been looking at the ABTA leaflet and I'm not impressed. Travel companies don't like having dirty linen exposed in civil courts, or to be prosecuted by Trading Standards.

ABTA is a sort of 'trade union' for the travel industry more likely to look after their interests than yours.

Peter

I can confirm this 60-40% rule. It stinks I know, but when it affected my holiday I checked with Ros and it seems its the norm.
In a nutshell: we flew to Mexico, had one night of our holiday, had hotel wrecked by hurricane and flew home.
First Choice refunded us the unused nights at our hotel by taking 40% of the cost, and dividing that by 14, then giving us that amount times 10 nights. (it took them 3 days to get us home)
We ended up with about a quarter of what we paid, having had one nights' holiday.

Whilst I take your point Bridd, the circumstances are different. Hurricanes or 'force majeure' are something else.

Peter

I know that Peter. The point I was trying to make is that its normal practice for TOs to calculate that the flight part of your holiday is worth 60% of the total.

I can confirm this 60-40% rule. It stinks I know, but when it affected my holiday I checked with Ros and it seems its the norm.

It's not a rule, it's a guideline - there for guidance only. I aim to prove that the 60/40 split is the wrong way round and that the airtravel element is around 40%.

The tourop in question is also in breach of Trade Descriptions Act so I have involved Trading Standards and ABTA. I don't want to post too much info in here just yet so as not to prejudice the claim but will once I get the outcome.

Go for it Martyn, and the best of luck.

Peter

Lots of luck Martyn. I hope you get somewhere with this.

We had to take a TO to court a couple of years ago,when they realised they had lost the case the TO tried to use this 40/60% rule to pay us less than the judge awarded us.The judge responded by telling them that we would not have booked the holiday at all and this obviously included the flight if we had known the true facts of the hotel facilities etc.(lack of advertised facilities was the main part of our compensation claim).He therefore took no notice of the 40/60% guidelines and awarded us almost the full cost of the holiday price that we had paid.Good luck in getting a successful conclusion to your claim.

Also, look at the per night price of a hotel.

Example (from Virgin Holiday's):

... click here ... for brochure details:

Cost for 14 nights departing 01/06/07: £ 959.00

Extra cost per night: £ 41.00

Value for 14 nights: 14 x £ 41.00 = £ 574.00

This equals 60% of the holiday cost.

Perhaps better off claiming the cost per night cost plus inconvenience/distress on top of this.

Mark

To add:

For dearer hotels:

... clike here ...

Total cost 14 nights departing 01/06/07: £ 1369.00

Cost per night: £ 68.00

Value for 14 nights = 14 x £ 68.00 = £ 952.00

This equals 70% of the holiday cost!!!!

Mark

Final thought on this subject on how you could succesfully argue this point:

Say you booked a 14 night holiday at "Sandy Lane" hotel in Barbados through a tour operator. Rooms there go at at least £ 700.00 per nighs.

How can the TO justify 60% of the total cost (£ 7000 plus £ 500 flight) would be the flight costs?

Ridiculous argument!!

Mark

Theres absolutely no way that the 60/40 split can ever be fair.

Whether you book 7 nights, 10 nights or 14 nights, you still only use 1 flight out and 1 flight back but the holiday goes up in price.
Below is the same holiday just for different durations and the Cost of flights goes up by £550 using the 60/40 guide.

Nights Cost ............60% .......... 40% ........... £ per Night
7 . £1,908.00 . £1,144.80 £763.20     £109.03
10 . £2,753.00 . £1,651.80 £1,101.20  £110.12
14 . £2,819.84 . £1,691.90 £1,127.94  £80.57

The 60/40 rule would be fine if you were able to equate the additional nights by a calculation based on that alone.

As you cannot I would suggest it is another case of how hard can you make it for someone to understand your pricing policy.

If Mum, Dad and two kids costs more than 4 adults sharing then it is obvious they have something to hide.

But then how many people book a holiday with one of the small TOs - fly on the big TOs planes with everyone else and stay at the same place, yet cost a lot less?

But then you need to consider the number of people who post for help here on HT - the end result - forget about the compensation - is a more informed traveller. That cannot be good for the TOs.

I would be happy to go with the big operators if I did not feel I was being overcharged and ignored.

I think I will stick with the small TO I use. At least I can talk direct to the guy who owns it if I have a problem and know it will be sorted.

fwh

I think I will stick with the small TO I use. At least I can talk direct to the guy who owns it if I have a problem and know it will be sorted.

I'm with you on that one fwh. I haven't booked with one of the big TOs for some years now and even then I only ever made the occasional late, heavily discounted booking, through a small independent TA at that, where it would have had to be an absolutely awful holiday for me not to think 'Well what can you expect at the price - it was good value for what we paid!'. These days I always go either DIY or book with small specialist TOs. They're not always the cheapest but the personal service and knowing that you're not going to be abandoned when things go wrong is sometimes worth paying that bit more for.

SM

And another example of the 60/40 guide not fitting.
The costs below are for the same holiday, the hotel only has 1 room type whether SC or AI.

14 Nights,
SC Cost £2679.84
60% £1607.90
40% £1071.94

AI Cost £4069.12
60% £2441.47
40% £1627.65

So by going all inclusive, the accomodation/board goes up by £556 and the flights go up by £834 - must be an extra weight surcharge cos of all the food and drink you'll be consuming

They offered me another £200 being the 3 days of Contract rate AI supplement.
I declined this and gave them another 14 days to reconsider as per ABTA advice - 14 days is up today and they hadn't even read my email - quoting 28 days to reply etc.etc.etc - advised them that it was ABTA's recoemmendation I give them 14 days. They had a quick read of my email and said position not changed,

Trading Standards are on the case about mis-selling rooms,

Will now send all detail off to Ros for opinion before taking any further steps.