I am looking for some advice from HT Members. I have just returned from a two week holiday in Jamaica as part of a wedding party of 45.
We were in Jamaica when hurricane Dean hit the island. While we were very lucky in that the area we were in was not badly affected, and the hotel was built to withstand hurricanes, and the staff were amazing. But we as a group are not very happy with our tour operator.
In the days leading up to the hurricane (when the eye was heading directly for the centre of the island) we were advised by the hotel that we should contact our tour operator and make arrangements to leave the island. When we contacted the company and the reps we were told that a decision would be made in the next few days, a decision that never came. We had been in contact with consulates, embassy, anyone we could think of. At one point we were told by the tour operator that they couldn't send planes every time there was a hurricane warning in the Caribbean!! This one was widely being broadcast as one the the highest scale hurricanes in years, and was projected to make direct contact with Jamaica!
In the meantime the American and Canadian tourists in our hotel were offered the option to evacuate, most took the option to leave, with only some deciding to sit it out.
As the hurricane came closer it became clear to us that our tour operator had no intention of sending planes from the UK for their customers and that we would have to prepare to sit out the hurricane in the hotel.
We were told by the hotel management the hotel that we were staying in is a dedicated hurricane shelter for that area, and would normally be a shelter for locals. Hence this is our complaint, we as a group are very angry that our tour operator in deciding not to evacuate us has put the lives of locals in danger as they should have been able to use the hotel as a shelter. As it happens the area was not badly affected by the hurricane, but the tour operator could not have known this, as in the days leading up to its arrival it was heading directly for the centre of the island as a force 4 hurricane.
Was anyone else in Jamaica during hurricane dean, what did their tour operator do? Can anyone offer us any advice?
In the next few weeks my friends and I shall be pursuing making a formal complaint about the tour operator and will be posting reviews advising people not to use such a negligent company.
Thanks in advance.
can i ask who the tooperator was.
Every year there are postings regarding TOs and their response to Hurricanes.
TOs are not the non feeling people that are often suggested. They work within guidelines and make decisions accordingly. They are also governed by what the authorities in such places tell them. Different TOs and Countries have their own criteria for assessing the risks and therefore apply rules and regulations that may differ from ours.
Yes sometimes they get it wrong.
What many people fail to admit is that they choose to take a holiday in an "at risk" zone during that time.
People who are affected know the risk yet still decide to go. Why? Probably because they take the view it will no affect them.
By all means make your dissatisfaction known but also consider that it was you that decided to go at a time when the chance of such a thing happening was at its greatest.
You are responsible for your own actions. We went to Portugal in February 1975 - less that a year after the revolution. There were various incidents whilst we were there and the day after we flew back from Lisbon someone in their air force shot up the airport.
It was our decision to go.
fwh
TOs are not the non feeling people that are often suggested. They work within guidelines and make decisions accordingly. They are also governed by what the authorities in such places tell them. Different TOs and Countries have their own criteria for assessing the risks and therefore apply rules and regulations that may differ from ours.
Yes sometimes they get it wrong.
What many people fail to admit is that they choose to take a holiday in an "at risk" zone during that time.
People who are affected know the risk yet still decide to go. Why? Probably because they take the view it will no affect them.
By all means make your dissatisfaction known but also consider that it was you that decided to go at a time when the chance of such a thing happening was at its greatest.
You are responsible for your own actions. We went to Portugal in February 1975 - less that a year after the revolution. There were various incidents whilst we were there and the day after we flew back from Lisbon someone in their air force shot up the airport.
It was our decision to go.
fwh
Hi
At this stage as a group we have decided not to post the name of the tour operator as we are seeking legal advice about our complaint. We also understand that there are a lot of people within the industry that use these forums. This may sound dramatic but we would rather be careful until our legal advisors get back to us.
Thanks
At this stage as a group we have decided not to post the name of the tour operator as we are seeking legal advice about our complaint. We also understand that there are a lot of people within the industry that use these forums. This may sound dramatic but we would rather be careful until our legal advisors get back to us.
Thanks
fwh
Thanks for you reply. And I completely agree. We were fully aware that we were travelling during the hurricane season. But this is not our concern. We were not made aware that the hotel was a shelter for the locals, and should we be there during the hurricane that local people would not be able to use the shelter. Had we known this then there is a possibility that we would not have used this hotel. Although I can only say this in hindsight.
Thanks for you reply. And I completely agree. We were fully aware that we were travelling during the hurricane season. But this is not our concern. We were not made aware that the hotel was a shelter for the locals, and should we be there during the hurricane that local people would not be able to use the shelter. Had we known this then there is a possibility that we would not have used this hotel. Although I can only say this in hindsight.
I am intrigued to know what you will be taking legal action for.
You booked a holiday with a tour operator, as far as I can tell they honoured this holiday got you there and brought you back home again.
I would imagine many hotels and other buildings could be used as emergency shelters I am not sure why the tour operator has a responsibility to tell you if a hotel in an emergency could be used as a shelter.
What are you looking for compensation/refund ?
Kind Regards
Stewart
You booked a holiday with a tour operator, as far as I can tell they honoured this holiday got you there and brought you back home again.
I would imagine many hotels and other buildings could be used as emergency shelters I am not sure why the tour operator has a responsibility to tell you if a hotel in an emergency could be used as a shelter.
What are you looking for compensation/refund ?
Kind Regards
Stewart
I can't see how seeking legal advice stops you from giving the tour ops name.
fwh
This is not a one sided coin. They may of chose to go in the hurrican season, but the tour op decided to sell holidays in the hurrican season. Its not a case of you chose to go somewhere during the huriccan season. The tour op decided to sell holiday even they knew the risk. They should have better evacuation plan in place in such events if they are going to sell holidays to a risk zone.
fwh
This is not a one sided coin. They may of chose to go in the hurrican season, but the tour op decided to sell holidays in the hurrican season. Its not a case of you chose to go somewhere during the huriccan season. The tour op decided to sell holiday even they knew the risk. They should have better evacuation plan in place in such events if they are going to sell holidays to a risk zone.
If your complaint is that your hotel was a hurricane shelter, I don't understand why this is an issue. Imagine being in a hotel that wasn't hurricane proof, and your Tour Operator still refused to move you? Surely you then would be in a situation many times worse as your life would be in danger?
I'm sorry (yes I do work in the industry, and it doesn't look like they handled it well - but I definitely don't work for the company you booked with!) but the Tour Operators responsibility does not extend to the locals in the event of a hurricane. They are responsible for you only. The responsibility of the local population rests with the government to ensure they have enough hurricane shelters. Did they actually barricade the entrance and advise local villagers they couldn't come in as there was an English wedding party taking up their space? There are 500 hurricane shelters in Jamaica by the way! 3 people died as a result of the hurricane, and none as a result of the negligence of your tour operator.
To say you wouldn't have booked this hotel if you had known it doubled up as a hurricane shelter is absurd. Are you saying you would have deliberately booked a hotel you know would not be safe in the event of a hurricane in the middle of hurricane season? It would have been one of my first choices.
The only issue you should be pursuing is to the T.O's negligence in failing to provide you with access to a flight away from the destination (which might not have been possible), and in the lack of support it offered your party in the lead-up to the event.
I'm sorry (yes I do work in the industry, and it doesn't look like they handled it well - but I definitely don't work for the company you booked with!) but the Tour Operators responsibility does not extend to the locals in the event of a hurricane. They are responsible for you only. The responsibility of the local population rests with the government to ensure they have enough hurricane shelters. Did they actually barricade the entrance and advise local villagers they couldn't come in as there was an English wedding party taking up their space? There are 500 hurricane shelters in Jamaica by the way! 3 people died as a result of the hurricane, and none as a result of the negligence of your tour operator.
To say you wouldn't have booked this hotel if you had known it doubled up as a hurricane shelter is absurd. Are you saying you would have deliberately booked a hotel you know would not be safe in the event of a hurricane in the middle of hurricane season? It would have been one of my first choices.
The only issue you should be pursuing is to the T.O's negligence in failing to provide you with access to a flight away from the destination (which might not have been possible), and in the lack of support it offered your party in the lead-up to the event.
This is not a one sided coin. They may of chose to go in the hurricane season, but the tour op decided to sell holidays in the hurricane season. Its not a case of you chose to go somewhere during the hurricane season. The tour op decided to sell holiday even they knew the risk. They should have better evacuation plan in place in such events if they are going to sell holidays to a risk zone.
I would totally agree with FWH.
Also the hotel may well have been the designated hurricane shelter for the locals, but surely they would have taken that into consideration.
By that i mean whether the hotel was full or not there would be enough room for locals to shelter.
but I definitely don't work for the company you booked with
How do you know you don't work for them as they haven't named the company?
Just curious
How do you know you don't work for them as they haven't named the company?
Just curious
That's easy! We only do South East Asia!
well that nails that one hehe
I have no doubt that there are evacuation plans in place for such occasions. They can fail to be effective in some cases, perhaps because they are rarely used.
Unlike for example a fire drill, where people evacuate premises and checks can be made on how effective they have been and changes made.
The number of people who ignored them always astounded me when I ran them.
I wonder how holidaymakers would react if their holiday was suddenly disrupted with a full scale evacuation exercise.
I have no doubt that threats of litigation would fly thick and fast. How dare they interrupt someone's pleasure?
And then of course we have the "Human Factor"
Everyone one is an expert on how others have failed to carry out their job correctly.
I often wonder how the critics would fare if they were in the position of being responsible for several hundred others in such circumstances. Not quite as well as they would have us think I suspect.
How individual people will react in an emergency is something that cannot be known.
Training does help to some extent but even that can only go so far.
Human nature being as it is, someone may be great on an exercise because they know it is one, but fall apart when faced with the real thing.
Where is the dividing line? At what point can the blame be shifted from the individual to the supplier? The holidaymaker and the TO in this case.
If I buy a car that will do 150mph is the garage responsible when I break the speed limit?
I know the risk of prosecution if I do, but can I blame the person who sold it to me?
fwh
Unlike for example a fire drill, where people evacuate premises and checks can be made on how effective they have been and changes made.
The number of people who ignored them always astounded me when I ran them.
I wonder how holidaymakers would react if their holiday was suddenly disrupted with a full scale evacuation exercise.
I have no doubt that threats of litigation would fly thick and fast. How dare they interrupt someone's pleasure?
And then of course we have the "Human Factor"
Everyone one is an expert on how others have failed to carry out their job correctly.
I often wonder how the critics would fare if they were in the position of being responsible for several hundred others in such circumstances. Not quite as well as they would have us think I suspect.
How individual people will react in an emergency is something that cannot be known.
Training does help to some extent but even that can only go so far.
Human nature being as it is, someone may be great on an exercise because they know it is one, but fall apart when faced with the real thing.
Where is the dividing line? At what point can the blame be shifted from the individual to the supplier? The holidaymaker and the TO in this case.
If I buy a car that will do 150mph is the garage responsible when I break the speed limit?
I know the risk of prosecution if I do, but can I blame the person who sold it to me?
fwh
Thank you to everyone for their responses, each one has very valid points. It is always interesting to hear other opinions, especially from people within the industry. I may well help us gather another perspective of the situation.
I personally am not looking for any sort of financial compensation etc, what the remained of my group is looking for I don't know I can't speak for each individual.
I may not have been clear, but what I was really looking for was other people who may have been on holiday in Jamaica at the time of the hurricane. It would be really interesting to know what they did, what they tour operator did, and what the hotel did. I may well have posted in the wrong area.
I would just like to say that I cannot in any way fault the hotel we were in, and the staff were amazing. Throughout the few days around the hurricane and on the actual day all they were thinking about was the guests,
Thanks
I personally am not looking for any sort of financial compensation etc, what the remained of my group is looking for I don't know I can't speak for each individual.
I may not have been clear, but what I was really looking for was other people who may have been on holiday in Jamaica at the time of the hurricane. It would be really interesting to know what they did, what they tour operator did, and what the hotel did. I may well have posted in the wrong area.
I would just like to say that I cannot in any way fault the hotel we were in, and the staff were amazing. Throughout the few days around the hurricane and on the actual day all they were thinking about was the guests,
Thanks
I am sure you have posted in the correct forum. We do try to be of help where we can.
Sometimes what we post may not be what someone may wish to hear.
It is often of help to ask for the opinions of others before deciding any action you may take. It does help put things in perspective.
Sorry that your holiday did not turn out quite as you expected.
But from another angle it does at least give you something different to talk about in the pub.
fwh
Sometimes what we post may not be what someone may wish to hear.
It is often of help to ask for the opinions of others before deciding any action you may take. It does help put things in perspective.
Sorry that your holiday did not turn out quite as you expected.
But from another angle it does at least give you something different to talk about in the pub.
fwh
Sorry but without the edit button!
Welcome to HT Please post a review of your holiday and accommodation.
Browse through the rest of HT - you never know you might just be able to help someone.
fwh
Welcome to HT Please post a review of your holiday and accommodation.
Browse through the rest of HT - you never know you might just be able to help someone.
fwh
Why are you waiting for your legal advisors to get back to you if you are not taking legal action ? If you have discussed legal action on what grounds are you looking to take action and for what if you are not after any financial settlement
Kind Regards
Stewart
Kind Regards
Stewart
Hi hotfootedmouse1,
Apart from the drama of the hurricane, everything else was Ok? Flights, transfers, food, the wedding etc etc?
I know you have said that ther hotel and staff were great.
Louise
Apart from the drama of the hurricane, everything else was Ok? Flights, transfers, food, the wedding etc etc?
I know you have said that ther hotel and staff were great.
Louise
I believe the holiday was at the Holiday Inn, Sunspree, Montego Bay, with Airtours/MyTravel.
The Caribbean hurricane season is from July to October - looked that up on the internet.
I cannot see any cause for complaint, especially as we are told that the hotel was built to withstand hurricanes.
Peter
The Caribbean hurricane season is from July to October - looked that up on the internet.
I cannot see any cause for complaint, especially as we are told that the hotel was built to withstand hurricanes.
Peter
Only just spotted this one but thought it worth mentioning as I was monitoring the official maps on Dean due to my impending holiday in Mexico.
The weather maps I looked at started with the Storm over the first island to get hit, From there on in the path showed that Jamaica was in the projected path of the storm but never a direct hit as the centre was always going further South.
I also read reports of people on holiday in Cancun who did not know there was a Hurricane until people phoned them from the UK to check they hadn't died, so maybe in this instance the problem was with the misinformation given about the severity/path.
If someone tells you you are on the direct hit line of the worst hurricane known to man and you cannot verify this information from an independant source, you have to take it at face value.
That statement is a lot worse than "we are on the edge of a hurricane".
Personally I would not be too put out if I had to shelter for a while, but would be extremely annoyed and spitting feathers if I thought that my family were being put at unnecessary risk of death.
So same situation but 2 completely different scenarios dependant on the info given.
Unfortunately I don't think they take this psychological effect into account, but looking on the bright side you survived the "worst storm in recorded history" and had to contend with a lot less US citizens!
The weather maps I looked at started with the Storm over the first island to get hit, From there on in the path showed that Jamaica was in the projected path of the storm but never a direct hit as the centre was always going further South.
I also read reports of people on holiday in Cancun who did not know there was a Hurricane until people phoned them from the UK to check they hadn't died, so maybe in this instance the problem was with the misinformation given about the severity/path.
If someone tells you you are on the direct hit line of the worst hurricane known to man and you cannot verify this information from an independant source, you have to take it at face value.
That statement is a lot worse than "we are on the edge of a hurricane".
Personally I would not be too put out if I had to shelter for a while, but would be extremely annoyed and spitting feathers if I thought that my family were being put at unnecessary risk of death.
So same situation but 2 completely different scenarios dependant on the info given.
Unfortunately I don't think they take this psychological effect into account, but looking on the bright side you survived the "worst storm in recorded history" and had to contend with a lot less US citizens!
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