Advice needed...
We were due to fly home from Orlando on 30th December with United Airlines at 1800 and arriving in Washington to get on our connecting flight to Heathrow at 2100. However in Orlando our flight was delayed by three hours and the lady at the UA desk happliy told us that our connecting flight would wait for us because they had a delay in Washington. When we boarded at 21:15 we were reassured that our flight was still delayed and would be waiting for us in Washington to get back to Heathrow. We arrived in Washington and the pilot annouced our flight was waiting for us and for everybody not going to Heathrow to take a seat so we could catch the flight. However whilst getting off the plane we overheard the stewardess talking with another steward discussing that our plane had already left. On arriving at the desk we were informed that our plane had left and we had our tickets for overnight accomodation just handed to us (already printed out,bearing in mind we had a party of 15). We asked what would happen now and nobody was willing to help,not even giving us directions, we were just handed vouchers and told to get a shuttle as the last one would be leaving shortly. When we asked further questions about our flights we were handed tickets to board a flight at 09:20am the following morning. We wanted to query a few things with them but the supervisor was telling everybody to wrap up and go home and off they went,just leaving us in the Airport. The attitude of the "supervisor" was appaling so in the end we decided to head for our hotel as everything was closed being 11:15pm. On arriving at the hotel we then realised that they had only given 2 food vouchers between 7 people (one of the families in the party were staying in a different hotel) so my husband had to pay for food as we hadnt eaten for approx 12hrs.
On arriving at the airport at 7am to make sure we were on the flights, we also had to try and rearrange our transport from Heathrow to Wales. After phoning our transport guy we were told he had other commitments being New Years Eve and wouldnt be able to pick us up. Bearing in mind we had pre-paid for the minibus at a cost of £400. We asked for help off UA and the answer they gave us was "We are only responsible for air to air transport...not ground transport" however they were willing to put us up in a hotel for the night which I'm guessing would have cost a lot more than trying to get home which we would have incurred the same problems with if we did stay overnight in Heathrow. So in the end we had to pay £500 for a minibus to come and pick us up. We have had no apology and no compensation. I even telephoned my travel insurance who advised this was the airlines responsibilty. The reason we were delayed was because they didnt have a pilot...the plane was sat there waiting.
Any idea who I can get in touch with about this as UA don't want to know, all they gave us was a leaflet entitled.."How are we doing"!
I'd expect your insurance should accept responsibility for the costs resulting from the delayed departure. But the amount may be limited to about £20 per person - but it's a start.
UA is an American Carrier and therefore not an EEC carrier. However, your flight that you missed (the Washington to Heathrow leg) was flying into an EEC airport and is therefore covered by the EC261/2004 rules. You'll find details here http://www.ecic.ie/topics/air_travel.html
and also here
United Kingdom
Air Transport Users Council
Room K705 -- CAA House
45-59 KINGSWAY
UK-London WC2B 6TE
Telephone: +44 020 7240 6061
FAX : +44 020 7240 7071
are the contact details of the body responsible for EC261/2004 inplementaion in the UK.
Do check that flights into the UK (from the US) are covered - it is my belief they are although AS Airways' website implies only flights departing from the EC are covered.
You might find United Airlines claim the delay was outside their control - that will not hold water if it was crew shortage. The key element is recovering your minibus costs. That might be tough as an airline is only responsible for getting you from point a to b which the did - albeit late.
EC261/2004 allows you to be compensated in certain circumstances - check with the CAA (address above) to see if your ground travel costs can be compensated.
Let us know the progress; good luck
Mike
UA is an American Carrier and therefore not an EEC carrier. However, your flight that you missed (the Washington to Heathrow leg) was flying into an EEC airport and is therefore covered by the EC261/2004 rules. You'll find details here http://www.ecic.ie/topics/air_travel.html
and also here
United Kingdom
Air Transport Users Council
Room K705 -- CAA House
45-59 KINGSWAY
UK-London WC2B 6TE
Telephone: +44 020 7240 6061
FAX : +44 020 7240 7071
are the contact details of the body responsible for EC261/2004 inplementaion in the UK.
Do check that flights into the UK (from the US) are covered - it is my belief they are although AS Airways' website implies only flights departing from the EC are covered.
You might find United Airlines claim the delay was outside their control - that will not hold water if it was crew shortage. The key element is recovering your minibus costs. That might be tough as an airline is only responsible for getting you from point a to b which the did - albeit late.
EC261/2004 allows you to be compensated in certain circumstances - check with the CAA (address above) to see if your ground travel costs can be compensated.
Let us know the progress; good luck
Mike
thanks mike for replying.
we are not quite sure if they held the plane in washington back because they were overbooked on the washington to heathrow flight and the flight landed on time at heathrow at 10.am as we were told by friends and family,but we were told at washingston that it was because they did not have a pilot,is there any way we could find out for ourselves that the flight landed on time?
we are not quite sure if they held the plane in washington back because they were overbooked on the washington to heathrow flight and the flight landed on time at heathrow at 10.am as we were told by friends and family,but we were told at washingston that it was because they did not have a pilot,is there any way we could find out for ourselves that the flight landed on time?
hi meggy
Have checked what is called the Heathrow Acars list for the 30th December and it shows a United Airlines arrival from Washington flight No,UA 922,landing at 9.41pm.
Hope this helps.Best of luck
Have checked what is called the Heathrow Acars list for the 30th December and it shows a United Airlines arrival from Washington flight No,UA 922,landing at 9.41pm.
Hope this helps.Best of luck
Sorry should have read arrived heathrow 9.05am under flight number flight code UA 924.Tired eyes I`m afraid,disregard my above post 
Meggy,
I understand you'd want to know the reasons for the delay and guess this is because you feel it may help your claim.
You were delayed on the first leg and consequently missed the second leg. That appears to be the simple fact at the moment.
You feel however that this delay on the first leg was manipulated to avoid the overbooking problem on the second leg over the Atlantic.
I can see that if this could be proven you could argue that the airline effectively denied you boarding my causing the delay - but you'd need to find out the true nature of the delay from Orlando to Washington.
UA would probably justify a full plane load (ie. without 15 seats spare) by saying wait-listed passengers took up those seats when it was obvious you would not be able to connect in time for the departure of the second leg.
You could write to the CAA and ask for the flight landing times for the flight you failed to meet - they'd probably release that information to you if you said it was required as part of a legal claim against the airline but again, not sure how it would help.
You could try ringing Ros Fernihough on 01922 621114 as she's a specialist travel solicitor who's advice is very reliable.
Mike
I understand you'd want to know the reasons for the delay and guess this is because you feel it may help your claim.
You were delayed on the first leg and consequently missed the second leg. That appears to be the simple fact at the moment.
You feel however that this delay on the first leg was manipulated to avoid the overbooking problem on the second leg over the Atlantic.
I can see that if this could be proven you could argue that the airline effectively denied you boarding my causing the delay - but you'd need to find out the true nature of the delay from Orlando to Washington.
UA would probably justify a full plane load (ie. without 15 seats spare) by saying wait-listed passengers took up those seats when it was obvious you would not be able to connect in time for the departure of the second leg.
You could write to the CAA and ask for the flight landing times for the flight you failed to meet - they'd probably release that information to you if you said it was required as part of a legal claim against the airline but again, not sure how it would help.
You could try ringing Ros Fernihough on 01922 621114 as she's a specialist travel solicitor who's advice is very reliable.
Mike
hi paully,
they put us on 922 arriving at heathrow 21.55pm on the 31st dec instead of the 924 arriving at 09.45am so your saying that that flight did land on time
they put us on 922 arriving at heathrow 21.55pm on the 31st dec instead of the 924 arriving at 09.45am so your saying that that flight did land on time
Hi Mike
United told us they didnt have a pilot to fly the plane but one got on and sat there with the cabin crew we all seen him ,so im not quite sure what they were playing at,to be honest i think they held our flight up because they had over booked on the heathrow flight and could not have had enough volenteers to stay till the next flight.I know our flight the 924 from washington landed at heathrow on time.So something is wrong somewhere and no one wants to sort it out, i've phoned everywhere to try and get some answers and i want them because theres no way im going to sit back and be treated this way i even phoned the usa today still no joy they cut me off.united have told me there is no where in the uk to complain to and that i would have to contact customer relations in the USA.I will let you know if i have any LUCK....
United told us they didnt have a pilot to fly the plane but one got on and sat there with the cabin crew we all seen him ,so im not quite sure what they were playing at,to be honest i think they held our flight up because they had over booked on the heathrow flight and could not have had enough volenteers to stay till the next flight.I know our flight the 924 from washington landed at heathrow on time.So something is wrong somewhere and no one wants to sort it out, i've phoned everywhere to try and get some answers and i want them because theres no way im going to sit back and be treated this way i even phoned the usa today still no joy they cut me off.united have told me there is no where in the uk to complain to and that i would have to contact customer relations in the USA.I will let you know if i have any LUCK....
Meggy
United seem to be in a mess at the moment and from what I have read get loads of complaints on a daily basis.They are,I think,still in chapter 11 bankrupcy and bumping along the bottom,so its no suprise that they do all in their power to put you off.
It is however not normal to hold an international flight,despite the stories you were told,unless it suits the airline,and the normal procedure is to release the flight and re book passengers on the next available.
The problem you may have under the EU rules,which as per all European legislation is open to wide interpretation,is that the flight that caused the trouble was an internal US flight and in fact the International flight ie to the EU destination left on time.Dont be suprised if United blame you for not catching an earlier flight from Orlando!! They may also claim that the pilot you saw on the plane was `deadheading`to another destination to start a duty and was not qualified on the that particular aircraft type.
I suggest you might be better getting some legal advice on this matter and see where that takes you but it might not be very easy.best of luck and please keep us posted.
United seem to be in a mess at the moment and from what I have read get loads of complaints on a daily basis.They are,I think,still in chapter 11 bankrupcy and bumping along the bottom,so its no suprise that they do all in their power to put you off.
It is however not normal to hold an international flight,despite the stories you were told,unless it suits the airline,and the normal procedure is to release the flight and re book passengers on the next available.
The problem you may have under the EU rules,which as per all European legislation is open to wide interpretation,is that the flight that caused the trouble was an internal US flight and in fact the International flight ie to the EU destination left on time.Dont be suprised if United blame you for not catching an earlier flight from Orlando!! They may also claim that the pilot you saw on the plane was `deadheading`to another destination to start a duty and was not qualified on the that particular aircraft type.
I suggest you might be better getting some legal advice on this matter and see where that takes you but it might not be very easy.best of luck and please keep us posted.
Good post Paully - agree with all your points clearly laid out.
Try Ros Fernihough on 01922 621114
Mike
Try Ros Fernihough on 01922 621114
Mike
Thanks guys,
I will keep you posted
the office of ros is closed until mon 9th so i will be in contact with her then ,I will let you know the outcome.THANKS again
I will keep you posted
the office of ros is closed until mon 9th so i will be in contact with her then ,I will let you know the outcome.THANKS again
I telephoned my travel insurance company today and they have told me that our delay will come under the missed departure,to which they only pay any costs incured ie.. hotel and transport.. they are not sure if they will pay our minibus from heathrow home but they said to try,I was told that because we were only delayed for two hrs at orlando which caused us to miss our departure at washington thats all we can claim for. My husband payed for the minibus home and UA gave us a voucher for the hotel so theres no other costs only the meals at washington in the hotel. there was seven of us of which five of them all had their own insurance(same company as mine) surely we would have been better off with a delayed flight claim as we were delayed for 14hrs all in.my friend who was with us her insurance company has told her is will claim for a delayed flight and transport.... any information i would be grateful for. 
Our flight from Cyprus to Uk was delayed six hours, does anyone know if under the EU guidelines whether we are due for compensation, the airline says it is covered by your holiday insurance. but I was under the impression that the new ruling, entitles you to your money back, as well as other costs, meals etc.
Sue
Sue
Hi Susan
I`m afraid you are not correct in your assumption re the EU compensation rules.Briefly if the aircraft is delayed for a reason beyond the control of the operator ie Breakdowns,Weather or Air traffic delays then other than being required to provide refreshments etc no other compensation is payable.You dont say what the reason was for the delay but I would suspect one of the above.
The new EU rules have been widely misinterpreted by the press.Under most circumstances they kick in when the flight is overbooked and you cant get on the flight you intended.
I`m afraid you are not correct in your assumption re the EU compensation rules.Briefly if the aircraft is delayed for a reason beyond the control of the operator ie Breakdowns,Weather or Air traffic delays then other than being required to provide refreshments etc no other compensation is payable.You dont say what the reason was for the delay but I would suspect one of the above.
The new EU rules have been widely misinterpreted by the press.Under most circumstances they kick in when the flight is overbooked and you cant get on the flight you intended.
Pauly,
Thanks for that, the flight was delayed, due to hydrolic failure and they had to use a different plane. We were not offered alternative flights, or our money back at the time to book another flight, which I also thought was policy, nor where we offered the phone calls which are I thought supposed to be allowed. I wouldn't mind but the trip was to the UK on business, we paid for a hire car, that we didn't use for one day, due to the lateness of the flight. Trouble being with this flight, most other passengers where going home of there holidays, but this wasn't the case with us.
Regards
Susan
Thanks for that, the flight was delayed, due to hydrolic failure and they had to use a different plane. We were not offered alternative flights, or our money back at the time to book another flight, which I also thought was policy, nor where we offered the phone calls which are I thought supposed to be allowed. I wouldn't mind but the trip was to the UK on business, we paid for a hire car, that we didn't use for one day, due to the lateness of the flight. Trouble being with this flight, most other passengers where going home of there holidays, but this wasn't the case with us.
Regards
Susan
We have wrote four formal letters of our complaint to UA sent them to Heathrow and to UA head office in Chicago by recorded delivery,We have not received a reply from Heathrow as yet. Chicago sent me travel vouchers to the value of $150 roughly £89 per/person which i didnt agree to, that means we would have to spend another small fortune to fly with them again to use them, so i sent them all back with another letter, now they dont seem bothered, i have also been e-mailing UA customer relations at Heathrow they are not bothered eitheras they never reply to them. I cannot claim off my travel insurance until i know why we were delayed as they need evidence i have also asked for this in my letters so we're in a no win situation.I would have thought the complaint would have been dealt with by now as its getting on for 3mths. I will give it another week then im off to Heathrow in person to sort it all out dont know if i'll get any where with them though.I am most annoyed we are being ignored by Customer relations at both Chicago and Heathrow 
Hi fwh,
I did contact Ros's office i think i was told in jan to hang on to see what the reply was from UA, so not to sure whats best to do next.
I did contact Ros's office i think i was told in jan to hang on to see what the reply was from UA, so not to sure whats best to do next.
what would you do if you were in my situation?
I dont really want to give up as we were put through hell with that flight plus all the time i've spent trying to sort it all out at the end of the day its not our fault plus it cost us, so we're out of pocket through no fault of our own any advice would be greatful.
I dont really want to give up as we were put through hell with that flight plus all the time i've spent trying to sort it all out at the end of the day its not our fault plus it cost us, so we're out of pocket through no fault of our own any advice would be greatful.
Give Ros a ring Meggy on 01922 621114 She is the best one to advise what your next step should be.
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