Dos grande señoritas My Spanish is somewhat lacking

Hmm. Looking at one of the links Sanji kindly put up seems like all the bingo players have been fined €300 per person and the bar €8,000 - suppose the later must be for running some-kind of gambling establishment without the appropriate licences, guess they didn't realise the consequences of giving out chocolate bars and tins of biscuits would be that.

Doe

doe wrote:

Hmm. Looking at one of the links Sanji kindly put up seems like all the bingo players have been fined €300 per person and the bar €8,000 - suppose the later must be for running some-kind of gambling establishment without the appropriate licences, guess they didn't realise the consequences of giving out chocolate bars and tins of biscuits would be that.

Doe

Another post saying.... €1200 for the owners, €300 for the players, €150 for observers. Apparently to be paid to charity in exchange for guilty pleas all around I believe.

And it appears that someone 'dobbed them in' to the police...Mmmm wonder who that might be? a rival bar not doing so well perhaps.?
Ex-pat tribal war?
I'd be mighty peed off if I'd just popped in for a drink - A bluddy expensive drink of pop that would be.

Sanji x

Ah they must have changed it since I looked Sanji. I would also have been a bit miffed if I had just popped in for a drink at €150 euros, kind of though they would have let those people off with just a warning. plus if they plead guilty they will end up with all end up with a police record and the EU is now talking about sharing all that kind of information with other EU country's so it would show up on a CRB check here in the UK.

1200 euro fine for the bar. 300 euro fine for the people taking part, and 150 euro fine for everyone else.
Fines to be donated to charity apparently.
A greater crime sanji is for people on holiday is wanting to catch the evenings episode of Eastenders
Corrie/Hollyoaks. Watch football on Sat afternoon. And there is a bar in Magaluf that shows episodes of
Only fools and horses on a continuous loop.And there are people in watching sad lot

pipefitter wrote:

1200 euro fine for the bar. 300 euro fine for the people taking part, and 150 euro fine for everyone else.
Fines to be donated to charity apparently.
A greater crime sanji is for people on holiday is wanting to catch the evenings episode of Eastenders
Corrie/Hollyoaks. Watch football on Sat afternoon. And there is a bar in Magaluf that shows episodes of
Only fools and horses on a continuous loop.And there are people in watching sad lot

Again it's up to the individual. I couldn't care less who does what on holiday, it's their holiday. I don't go into the karaoke, bingo, football (tell a lie we watched the England V Portugal match in the Algarve, but it was in a restaurant and we couldn't avoid it ) bars as they don't appeal, but they don't bother me either.

pipefitter wrote:

1200 euro fine for the bar. 300 euro fine for the people taking part, and 150 euro fine for everyone else.
Fines to be donated to charity apparently.
A greater crime sanji is for people on holiday is wanting to catch the evenings episode of Eastenders
Corrie/Hollyoaks. Watch football on Sat afternoon. And there is a bar in Magaluf that shows episodes of
Only fools and horses on a continuous loop.And there are people in watching sad lot

Like Glynis I couldn't care less what people do as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

Don't feel it's up to me to tell others how to holiday, their money their choice, don't really like it when people look down on those who want to do similar stuff to what they so at home, they have probably worked for 50 weeks to be able to do it, in the grand scheme of what goes on in the world it hardly matters. Doubt they would want to drag round the Louvre, cathedrals or look at a lot of art with me either, so what
The fines only go to charity if they plead guilty so end up with a record.

There is a bar/café in Lagos that is called Fools and Horses and they play that sit com all the time as well only went in once, not my sort of bar.
Anyway does this mean that when going into a bar in the Algarve or any other resort in Portugal, will we have to ask the bar owner if it is safe to drink in here as to be hit with a fine just to sit in a bar and end up having to pay over 150 euros to do it is a bit on the costly side of any body's holiday money.
Surely this is what the human right act is for, to stop this sort of thing going on, I think if I was one of the onlookers I think I would take it further, than just letting it ride.
I think it is one way for the Portuguese to keep the tourists away, along with the June 27th strike.

It's a bit of a worry Dave tbh.

I guess if you see any games of bingo or quiz nights going on in a place you are enjoying a drink, best leave incase you are deemed to be 'observing a crime' and €150 euros requested by the GNR- well €300 if there are two of you.

It all seems a bit bonkers and the monetary penalties totally disproportionate to the 'crime'.

Doe

Whilst I can appreciate that some people may be worried about this - a game of bingo is just a bit of fun - is very far from the truth. The Betting & Gaming Act here in the UK does lay down very strict rules so it should not come as much of a surprise that Portugal, or any other tourist destination should not have similar rules. The case discussed here refers to "Prize Bingo" - financially it would be very lucrative giving tins of biscuits (which they can buy very cheaply) for the bar. I said before that I think the case in question was used by the authorities to send a message. If there is a licensing system in force that is being ignored what better way than to prosecute as they have done. I doubt there will be many people playing in future so the authorities will have saved themselves a lot of time and money with this.
Before we criticise others how many know the law here in the UK? For example it is illegal for anyone under 18 to play "Cash Bingo" for example. Records have to be kept of income and expenditure. Technically even the jargon (Legs Eleven, Clickety Click etc) is against the law.

fwh

I'm pretty certain that in the UK whatever happened the people who were dragged off for 'illegally playing bingo' would at least have been allowed legal representation, i.e. the duty solicitor unlike what happened here.

Sounds very much like a kangaroo court, so it is all very well to be sanctimonious about it but I would imagine what has been done is against EU law and tbh I hope some of those that have been fined €150 for simply being in the same establishment as those playing bingo for biscuits, take further advice on this, why should they be lumbered with a criminal record for simply sitting in a bar ?

They can send 12 armed police to deal with this but couldn't stop Maddy from being taken out of their borders or deal with all the mugging on the strip they get there. Pathetic.

The case wasn't used to send a message, it was used to get a load of cash off of vulnerable British OAP'S, who were seen as cash cows. The Portuguese bars have illegal gambling going on in them as well, but a blind eye is turned to that when the winner walks out with the live pig they have won for a €10 stake !

I said before that I think the case in question was used by the authorities to send a message. If there is a licensing system in force that is being ignored what better way than to prosecute as they have done. I doubt there will be many people playing in future so the authorities will have saved themselves a lot of time and money with this.

I agree and I think I also said that earlier...I've seen it happen in Benidorm, a bar gets raided by the policia, and the jungle drums pass around Benidorm warning all the other bars, before the culprits have made it to the police station.
There is nobody to blame except the people who own the bar and if I'd just walked in there minutes earlier for a drink of pop - I'd be sending them the bill for my fine.
They knew it was illegal to gamble, so, they thought giving biscuits out as a prize would get around the existing laws, but it seems they were charging for the bingo tickets, therefore chose how much they want to dress it up, try and squirm out of it, or plead ignorance - they were gambling.

Of course we have the usual ex-pat/British whinging, saying that Portugal has daft laws and what harm were they doing.
No, get over it, this is the law in Portugal - learn it and abide by it. Who are we to tell another country how to run their affairs or suggest their daft laws should be changed?
Might be daft laws to ex-pats, but would we like laws to be changed to suit every Tom Dick or Harry in this country.?
From what I've read and it was featured on BBC 'Look North'- both at 1 pm and 6 pm - there was a translator present and a duty solicitor - who might have advised them to plead guilty and pay it, rather than go to trial, and then sort it out when they get home.

Sanji

fwh wrote:

Before we criticise others how many know the law here in the UK? For example it is illegal for anyone under 18 to play "Cash Bingo" for example. Records have to be kept of income and expenditure. Technically even the jargon (Legs Eleven, Clickety Click etc) is against the law.

fwh

I agree with what you say , people don't understand or even know some of the laws we have , although on a slightly different matter , it never ceases to amaze me how many adults let their children select which lottery scratch cards they want ( the age limit is 16 to play lottery ) the children ask for which one they want , we refuse sale and the adults think we're being awkward because we ask THEM to request which one they want !! I don't give 2 $@@€# what they do in their own house , but I'm not going to break the law , just because they think its stupid , if a Camelot rep was in the queue and saw us sell to an under 16 we would lose our licence because of the adults immature and bad attitude . We tell them they have to understand its the law , they would soon create merry hell if I sold fags or booze to their child , but its the same principle .

They knew it was illegal to gamble, so, they thought giving biscuits out as a prize would get around the existing laws, but it seems they were charging for the bingo tickets, therefore chose how much they want to dress it up, try and squirm out of it, or plead ignorance - they were gambling.

Exactly, Sanji - and I certainly would not be a happy bunny if I got a conviction as well as a fine as a holidaymaker as I would not know or be aware of the local gambling laws.

However, the expats and the bar owner would be fully conversant with it and if they're prepared to take that risk they should also take what's coming to them on the chin rather than trying to make a mockery out of it by bringing in the UK tabloids.

I'm sure you'll be careful which bars you go in Dave as you're going to Portugal shortly I can't believe that has happened, why should innocent people just having a drink there get fined. Portugal is in a bad way at the moment so people must be extremely careful which bars they visit.

http://www.algarveresident.com/0-53507/algarve/fake-police-prey-on-tourists-in-the-algarve

Fake police preying on Algarve tourists.

The above is probably something else that tourists to the Algarve need to be aware of, I guess it's unlikely that individuals in hotels will be targeted but those renting private apartments or villas should maybe stay alert to the possibility as when you are on holiday people tend to relax their guard.

Doe

Thanks for that Doe, shocking!

cyprus100 wrote:

Exactly, Sanji - and I certainly would not be a happy bunny if I got a conviction as well as a fine as a holidaymaker as I would not know or be aware of the local gambling laws.
However, the expats and the bar owner would be fully conversant with it and if they're prepared to take that risk they should also take what's coming to them on the chin rather than trying to make a mockery out of it by bringing in the UK tabloids.

Thanks Shell- I too have sympathy for those tourists in the wrong place at the wrong time, I wouldn't expect tourists to know the fine details of the Portuguese gambling laws, but there is absolutely no excuse for ex-pats, and especially an ex-pat running a business not knowing them.

You've only got to type in 'Gambling laws in Portugal' into Google - for goodness sake, a couple of clicks and the rules are all there with the different legislation covering the various methods of gambling, from casinos to raffles.
When I watched yesterday's 'Look North' they mentioned biscuits and booze - then on the 6pm edition, they just mentioned biscuits for prizes.

For the police - it's a win win win situation - if you didn't know playing bingo was illegal ( apart from in the authorised, licensed and regulated bingo halls) well you sure do now and there'll be no bars taking the risk in the near future.

The case wasn't used to send a message, it was used to get a load of cash off of vulnerable British OAP'S, who were seen as cash cows

Any fines have to be paid to a charity, it's in the legislation - in fact, the bar owners are lucky that they haven't been closed down for good.!.
IMO: With the evidence stacked against them, IE: a bingo machine, bingo tickets and plenty of Euros - pleading guilty and accepting a lower fine was the best advice they were given..
First they were playing for biscuits, then it's biscuits and booze, then they mention they charge for the bingo tickets......
Well, well well....just read the comment made by Isabel Fonseca - If she ain't telling the truth, she might be needing a solicitor.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/portuguese-arrest-irish-tourists-for-watching-bingo-29372483.html

Sanji x

Safe Communities Algarve have posted a joint statement following meetings with the GNR, British Vice Consul and Turismo do Algarve.

http://www.safecommunitiesalgarve.com/downloads/statementconcerninggamblinginportugal.pdf