Yes unless you are

travelling free of charge or at a reduced fare not available directly or indirectly to the public

I've been looking for ages now for a Thomson flight to Barbados as I know they do fly there. Can't get any tickets because this flight is exclusive for P&O cruise passengers.

Thomson will claim that these fares are a reduced fare and not directly or even indirectly available to the public.

My point being that this piece of regulation may be applicable to some, but certainly not to ALL flights.

Mark

When you book a package I don't think you can possibly be paying the same price for the flight as you would if you booked a flight only. Could be argued that you are travelling at a reduced fare that is not directly available to the public.

However, the OP hasn't suggested that they were flying on such a flight so I'm not certain where your argument is going here.

EC261/2004 applies to the OP's flight and therefore doolah and her husband are entitled to the protection and remedies contained within that Regulation which are as follows:

Article 10

Upgrading and downgrading

1. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class higher than that for which the ticket was purchased, it may not request any supplementary payment.

2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), reimburse

(a) 30 % of the price of the ticket for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less, or

(b) 50 % of the price of the ticket for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, except flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres, or

(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling under (a) or (b), including flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments

There is no defence on which an airline can rely under Article 10 and the breach of contract has been notified by the correspondence already received by doolah.

My advice would be to write to Thomson airlines stating that you would like to be compensated in line with the statutory compensation laid down by Article 10.2(c) and see what the response is from the airline. Doubtless they will try to deflect or divert the OP with an offer of refunding the premium fee as evidenced by dramont on Tripadvisor so be prepared to take the matter further. I suggest that all your correspondence is sent either recorded delivery or RM special delivery to Thomson Airlines.

You might also want to elicit whether you have access to legal expenses cover under your houshold contents insurance policy so that you can call upon the cover provided there if you have this.

Sunaddict - I have already alluded to the package holiday flight question and that argument holds no substance when referring to the Regulation.

So what is the price of the flight then? Thomson can say it was £100 - you simply don't know. They could even argue that it is a special reduced fare not available to the general public.

Now, if you bought a seat on a charter airline, it would be a total different matter as it was quite clearly available direct to you. Even if booked through an agent, it would be available indirectly (eg not direct with the airline) to you.

You say that you alluded to the package holiday bit, but you haven't taken into account that little "get out clause" of a reduced fare not available to the general public.

Mark

Your argument assumes that doolah and her husband are taking a package holiday which she has yet to confirm or deny is the case. Even if they were to take a package holiday (which is after all available to the 'public') then the Regulation still applies as noted above.

Perhaps more advice should be directed towards the OP's question rather than try to shoot posters giving relevant advice down in flames...This is supposed to be a board dedicated to helping those who have raised complaints, isn't it?

Lets get back to the original post...

Today we have received a letter to say that we cant have premium economy flights on our return journey as the aircraft had been changed and there were none available. I telephoned and queried this, they said that the plane that was meant to be used for our flight had been damaged and so an alternative plane was being used which had no premium cabin.

This all sounds a bit fishy to me!! I have looked at seating plans of the Thomson fleet and all of their longhaul planes seem to have a premium cabin.

the following information can be found by reading the Thomson fly thread in the flights forum....

YES one 763 er long haul config was severely damaged in a heavy landing incident at Bristol, this airframe is in the process of assessment and repair after completion it will be given a flight certificate only if it fully meets the requirements of Boing and the CAA

the spare aircraft used for such emergencies is a 763 [short haul config] 242 seats at 30 inch pitch seating plan the carriers only guarantee to transport you from A to B none [as far as im aware ] No guarantee which aircraft will be used is given

Yes it is an advise board and yes a package is available to the general public, but the flight fare part of that package may not be. The OP would be claiming against the flight element or even against the airline who may not be the same as the TO, not the other elements of the package holiday.

I have given alternative advise. You gave your advise.

Lets just leave it at that.

Mark

Thank you all for your advice, we are resigned the fact that we wont be getting the premium seats but hope for their sakes they havnt lied to us and just over booked the premium cabin!!

we booked the holiday as a package but not through Thompson so not sure where we stand on that respect but we will most certainly be making a complaint to try to get the 75% refund if at all possible.

Thank you all

doolah

If you ever find out what 75% of your flight actually is please do come back and let us know. I would love to know how they work it out.

A couple of years ago I had a similar problem with VA... we booked a 14 night trip to Antigua through Thomson with premium seats on both outward and return journeys....

All well going, but on the day of return when they came to do the "chill out check out" service, they told us that we didn't have the premium seating....

When I got home I wrote to VA citing section 10 as above and demanded a 75% refund of the fare that had been quoted my by Thomson... Thomson can supply a break-down for you if you fly with another airline, but book through them... For instance, this year we're going to Grenada, again booked through Thomson (Lunn poly) but are flying with BA... I made sure that I paid the whole of the BA component of the bill ASAP after booking so that they would release the locator number so that I could specify our seats...

Not sure how this relates to the OP, Thomson may not be willing to supply a breakdown of their own in-house package but if push comes to shove then I would argue that you should assume that the airfare is what they advertise as a flight-only fare..

ATB,J.

merseygull

They cannot give a breakdown for a package holiday. To be sold as a package it has to be sold at an inclusive price - no component breakdown.
The airfare component of a package is not the cost of the flight only. I know this because a couple of years ago we had a long delay and after 5 hours enquired about cancelling. This only refunds the flight element. We were told by Thomsons that if we cancelled we were entitled to £85 per person for the flight.
IMO I don't think arguing on an assumption will get very far with a tour operator.

And yet if you claim compensation for poor accommodation they quickly give you a % of the cost of the flight. They did this with me a few years ago when I whinged. I think they tried to take a good chunk off for the flight.

When we complained on our return, not just long delay but missed day of holiday etc. we knocked £85 x 2 off the cost of the holiday before dividing by 14 to get to the cost of one day.
They didn't argue about the cost of the flight and we did get a 14th back plus more for other probs as well.
The problem with not having a breakdown is they can try to use it to their advantage whichever part of the holiday you are claiming for.

doolah wrote:

This all sounds a bit fishy to me!!

Apologies for the late responce, I've not been around the last 36 hours. The following post will clear things up for you; G-OOBK landing incident. There's nothing 'fishy' about what you've been told at all. Thomson Airways would hardly make up a story like that to tell passengers! It's just unfortunate that your flights are effected due to knock-on effects by the landing incident. The latest I have is the aircraft will be back in service by the end of November. I have a list of effected flights up until 4th November is people need to know what flights are effected.

Darren

Thanks Darren.

Not sure how this relates to the OP, Thomson may not be willing to supply a breakdown of their own in-house package but if push comes to shove then I would argue that you should assume that the airfare is what they advertise as a flight-only fare..

If it were to go to Court, burden of proof lies with the Claimant. That was made very clear to me when I went to Court by the District Judge.

I can't see how you're going to prove what the cost of the flight is. The cost of the flight if it is available via a direct booking would be the cost at the time of the booking. As you're making a claim after the booking, you're not going to find such cost unless at the time of bookng you price a flight only cost for the destination for the same flights (out- and in bound).

Mark

And yet if you claim compensation for poor accommodation they quickly give you a % of the cost of the flight. They did this with me a few years ago when I whinged. I think they tried to take a good chunk off for the flight.

I still think that this is a very flawed argument by a Tour Operator and can be easily proven as flawed.

Holiday A is for 14 nigths at a 2* hotel at a cost of £1,000

Holiday B is for 14 nights at a 5* hotel at a cost of £2,000

Both holidays use the exact same flights and dates.

How can the flight price for holiday A be say x% of £1,000 with the flight price for holiday B be say x% of £2,000 where x% is the same percentage?

A better way of judging the cost for the accommodation per night would be to take the extra night accommodation price (if provided of course), or the difference between a 7 night and 14 night price devided by 7.

Mark

If it were to go to Court, burden of proof lies with the Claimant.

That depends under what legislation the claimant is bringing their claim. Under the provision of Article 10 of EC 261/2004, the breach of that Article (by denying the passenger their contractual right to a premium seat) is complete once that aspect has been denied. Since there is no statutory defence within this free-standing Article then, should the defendant airline wish to defend this claim in court, the burden of proof then passes to the airline automatically. The claimant has clear documented and actual evidence of the breach so no further proof is required from the claimant.

The Regulation creates statutory rights to entitlements to compensation or otherwise, any denial of these rights leads to compensation or other recompense within the relevant Articles, unless there is a statutory derogation within the Regulation. There is no derogation to be found within Article 10.

I cannot comment on the judge's comments in your own case as I haven't seen details of these nor am I aware under what legislation your claim was brought.

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