Hi Rachie-m, a lot could depend on when you are due to travel. And when you say that they have said that you can 'cancel free of charge' do you mean that they have said that they will give you a full refund of what you've paid? If that is the case, as far as I know then Kingston have done all that they need to do, that is, they've offered you an alternative option or else a full refund if that isn't acceptable.

If this has happened quite near to your departure date then you might be able to pursue this with BA but if they are giving you plenty of notice of this then I'm not sure where you stand.

SM

I'd generally agree with SMa. You really need to know when BA pulled the route. When were you supposed to be going?

If BA were taking bookings when you booked the holiday and the TO has informed you of the change as soon as possible after BA cancelled the flight then a full refund with no charges is probably the best you could hope for from them. Technically THEY have cancelled the holiday (not you) so if you are getting close to departure there may be something in the T&CS about compensation for late notice - the big TO's usually give a few pounds within 56 days but that's just the way they work and small TOs may not do it.

Whether you have a case against BA is a deep question, if you could prove that BA weren't committed to flying when they took the booking but didn't warn you then there may be an case to argue but to be honest that's probably too far fetched to consider. If they took the booking in good faith but circumstances have changed their T&Cs probably let them cancel without liablity.

On the other hand, if BA were NOT taking bookings when the TO took your booking (ie the TO was assuming/hoping the flight would go ahead), or if BA told the TO long before they told you, then you may have grounds to claim for any additional costs the late change is causing. But if this TO is offering the Virgin option for £700 more it would be a bit odd to book with someone else for £1000 more and then try to claim the difference.

rachie-m wrote:

Kingston with a 8 hour transfer

Actually, the transfer time by road is about 4 hours... still a BIG inconvenience though...

ATB,J.

Elsewhere I see another member of HT has booked with BA to fly to Montego Bay with BA in December.

I have looked at the Kewood website and T&Cs but have been unable to find any real information regarding cancellations by them of compensation. I suspect that we are going to see more of these tales as BA have announced they are cancelling or reducing flights to that part of the world. Might be worth contacting BA and asking them if they are prepared to offer any help.

fwh

According to BA Source the summer 2012 timetables came out on 16 September and LGW-MBJ had been dropped. The final flight will depart 24 March 2012. Kenwood only pay compensation on major changes made within 70 days of departure so they have done everything they need to.

I'm only a novice at T&C's but I would expect BA to re route me with another carrier.

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/euclaimnor/public/en_gb

Cheers Geri

That links to EC261 conditions which is a thought but probably not one that will go far. The EC261 rules were intended for late cancellations that leave people in limbo, in this case it's a long time off. There's also the question of what status the reservation had - if it was never confirmed by BA, just held in their system then it won't be covered - has a ticket actually been issued? But, let's not dismiss the idea, what alternative carrier, routing (and dates) are possible on this journey?

The EC261 rules were intended for late cancellations that leave people in limbo, in this case it's a long time off.

Really! The intentions of the legislators are quite clear in the Recitals to the Regulation:

(1) Action by the Community in the field of air transport should aim, among other things, at ensuring a high level of protection for passengers.
(12) The trouble and inconvenience to passengers caused by cancellation of flights should also be reduced. This should be achieved by inducing carriers to inform passengers of cancellations before the scheduled time of departure and in addition to offer them reasonable re-routing, so that the passengers can make other arrangements.
(13) Passengers whose flights are cancelled should be able either to obtain reimbursement of their tickets or to obtain re-routing under satisfactory conditions...

Since the OP has suffered a cancellation then the passenger is entitled to the appropriate remedies under the Regulation. So long as the OP had a confirmed reservation on the now cancelled flight, they would be entitled to be appropriately re-routed or offered a full refund in these circumstances.
As a travel agent is involved in this I would be on their case ensuring that they apply some pressure on the airline to appropriately re-route me.

Thanks for the advice. We have cancelled with a full refund of deposit and have now rebooked for Mexico.

rachie

hopefully nothingg else to go wrong!

Cityboy

your post contains an important word - tickets - I'm assuming in this case that no tickets had been issued yet. If the tickets haven't been issued BA will claim there never was a confirmed reservation, just a request for one in due course. In airline terms, you aren't on the flight until you've got an "OK" status on the reservation system. And as I read it the agent was actually a tour operator who was selling a package promise based on an assumption that BA would run the route. And it also includes the reference to inducing carriers to inform passengers of cancellations before the scheduled time - which they have done with several months to spare. And we still don't have an answer to whether there ever was a reasonable alternative routing to even argue about.

I doubt a UK court would support a claim for a cancellation this far out under these circumstances, partly due to the fact that at present they won't even look at certain types of claim for on the day events even though everyone thought the rules were simple and had been used previously.

Steve8482

I agree that the key element is that either the passenger has "tickets" or other proof of a confirmed reservation that has been accepted and confirmed by the airline for the remedy under 261/2004 to come into play. The TA/TO should have some idea whether this is the case or not.

As to your statement whether

a UK court would support a claim for a cancellation this far out under these circumstances, partly due to the fact that at present they won't even look at certain types of claim for on the day events

, this seems to be based on an assertion that the Regulation doesn't apply several months or weeks before departure.

The Reg is quite specific on this point of validity and this is reinforced in Article 3 Scope:

Scope

1. This Regulation shall apply:

(a) to passengers departing from an airport located in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies;

(b) to passengers departing from an airport located in a third country to an airport situated in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies, unless they received benefits or compensation and were given assistance in that third country, if the operating air carrier of the flight concerned is a Community carrier.

2. Paragraph 1 shall apply on the condition that passengers:

(a) have a confirmed reservation on the flight concerned and, except in the case of cancellation referred to in Article 5, present themselves for check-in,

- as stipulated and at the time indicated in advance and in writing (including by electronic means) by the air carrier, the tour operator or an authorised travel agent,

or, if no time is indicated,

- not later than 45 minutes before the published departure time; or

(b) have been transferred by an air carrier or tour operator from the flight for which they held a reservation to another flight, irrespective of the reason.

3. This Regulation shall not apply to passengers travelling free of charge or at a reduced fare not available directly or indirectly to the public. However, it shall apply to passengers having tickets issued under a frequent flyer programme or other commercial programme by an air carrier or tour operator.

4. This Regulation shall only apply to passengers transported by motorised fixed wing aircraft.

5. This Regulation shall apply to any operating air carrier providing transport to passengers covered by paragraphs 1 and 2. Where an operating air carrier which has no contract with the passenger performs obligations under this Regulation, it shall be regarded as doing so on behalf of the person having a contract with that passenger.

6. This Regulation shall not affect the rights of passengers under Directive 90/314/EEC. This Regulation shall not apply in cases where a package tour is cancelled for reasons other than cancellation of the flight.

There are no temporal limits to the Scope of the Regulation so long as the point we agree on is present i.e. that the passenger has a confirmed reservation on the flight.

Agreed, the key issue is getting a confirmed ticket issued this far in advance and that is unlikely.

We get a lot of people who book a full year in advance and then have their plans messed up and we don't want them to think all they have to do is quote EC261 and all will be well - the reason why airlines do this so often is that they have usually covered their backs and know they can get round the rule.

I've had airlines KLM almost instantly supply an electronic ticket.
And that was 330 days in advance of the return flight.

Quite possibly. But this was about a BA flight that BA were clearly not committed to running when a Tour Operator showed it in the itinery of a package. It would be interesting to know whether it could have been booked direct with BA, would they have issued "OK" tickets or just an acknowledgement of request for this one?