I'm enjoying your report. I'm waiting to hear about the rest of your trip.
We were all a bit worried about you Val when we heard about the dive boat sinking, glad you weren't affected.

sorry that the dives were not as good as you would have had in the Maldives. Nice report- looking forward to hearing more.

other things to do - if diving is not your thing....well overlooking Chalong bay in Phuket is a giant budda..or Big Budda as he is affectionately known. he is 45m high and is not yet finished. He only has 1 arm!!! There is a massive sponsorship/drive for money to get him completed. Buddhist monks actually make pilgrimages up there..and it is a long way to the top of the mountain. You can see him for miles!

We also went to the Monkey school..which is where they teach monkeys how to pick coconuts. They get 1 baht a coconut. I was not overly keen on this as i thought they were cruel in keeping the monkeys on chains. the monkey you had your picture took with outside was called Deth..and he bit Rob!!!!( I tried so hard not to laugh!). Everything was designed to fleece cash out of you..but it was good how the monekys could do all these tricks..like ride a bike, dive into a lake to retrieve a watch that was lobbed in, shoot basketball hoops..and the most intriguing of the lot was when he could pick numbers called out of the audience from boards that had been placed face down and shuffled without him looking!!!
The cutest thing was a little Thai boy launched his cornetto into the baby monkey enclosure in a fit of temper and a little baby monkey had picked it up and then ran and sat in his perch with it eating it out of the reach of the other baby monkey who had a right paddy because he couldn't reach to get any..eventually the monkey dropped it and a trainer kicked the remains over to within reach of the other monkey.

There was also an elephant sanctuary here..and a little baby had been born in January who was called Peemai. Apparantly Asian elephants born in captivity are quite rare so there was a lot of fuss over this little chappie. We got some good photo's but again, I was not keen on the idea of them being in captivity and performing for people like me. Maybe it makes me a hypocrite..but we left. It was better when we saw some wild elephants at the side of the road on another trip..and wild monkeys on another trip still when we moved over to Krabi.

There are many temples there, but we didn't actually visit any of them to explore..which is a real shame as we probably should have done..but we just didn't have the time as we only had 9 days in Phuket.

We transferred by road to Krabi, which was a 3 hour drive but the sights were breathtaking. I loved seeing away from where the main tourist drag is..although it was a huge shock to find most toilets are literally holes in the ground...even in the big populated areas...the mountains were just breath-taking and seeing all those bits of rock jutting out into the sea were totally gob smacking and soemthing we had been really looking forward to. Our next hotel was in Krabi and called Centara Grand resort...(report will follow) but what we were not told was that it was only accessible by speedboat and it was like being on Alcatraz.....we were not impressed.....but we managed to escape using a variety of methods.

Seriously, there is no road access and the only way to Ao Nang or to anywhere else was via long tail boat, which was like their bus service. Also there was a climb over the mountain through a series of steps through a national park. These were made of wood..just a couple of uneven planks nailed together very perilously. No real safety aspect and i would hate to have done the climb up and down at night and/or if i had had a voddy or 10.

On the first day we managed to get a long tailed boat..but you had to wade quite a way into the sea to get it..but on the way back, again there was a queue of us and the german lass in front of us ( who was trying to get in the boat from the middle where it was unstable rather than at the end) toppled back and fell into the sea. Rob was behind her and did try to catch her but missed..anyway, he did the usual "are you ok" and helped her up and she had an absolute hissy fit! She turned round and spat out with pure venom "Thanks"..so Rob says "what?" and she said then in very broken english " your wife push me in the water"..and which point in total astonishment said "you what bird???" in my best Yorkshire tone quickly followed by " i never touched you"...and I swear on my boys life I never did..anyway, she carried on swearing away at us as she was getting on the boat. She kept it up for most of the journey after her hubby had wrapped a towel round her (he never said anything..he just had this smile on his face) and then as we were first to get off..she started her tirade again and there are some German words i understand and there are some swear words beginning with F that are universal..at which point Rob flipped and said to her "do you and him want to get off the boat and we will sort it out now"..of course she didn't understand and carried on chelping. Needless to say, I offered to drown her, gave her a few choice words back in reply and then left her to it. There really was no need for her to behave like that...she just fell in...end of. I was wet through too..I was up to my waist in water yet i wasn't chelping like she was. Some people..and can I point out now at the risk of getting this bit editing..we met many many different nationalities over in Thailand yet by far the most rudest, most obnoxious and most arrogant of them all were the german people. Not just her. Out of every German we met, only 2 females were anywhere near sociable. None even had the basic manners to say please or thank you. That should be a minimum requirement of any nationality...but I digress.

We trawled around dive schools to find a package and were mortified to find that all had doubled thier prices from those in Phuket, all had price fixed and they were the same dive sights as we had previously done. We pointed out that the viz was poor and one guy said, "yeah we know..but that's the price and we have all agreed to stick to it". so we did not dive at all in Krabi. Incidentally, there were alot of empty dive boats so i guess many other people had voted with thier feet to. I was glad we didn't dive actually as we decided to do other things..and by far the best thing we did was go on a kayak tour into the mangrove forest and see the wild monkeys. it worked out at about £20 each and was amazing trawling through the swamps and then seeing wild monkeys in thier own habitat..i was so close to them. We also visited where they filmed some film with leonardo de watsit in..we then went to some restaurant for dinner ( which was in the middle of nowhere and was actually just a bamboo hut) which was a native Thai meal and was delicious. There was a live chicken running across the counter!!! A little boy fell in love with my camera and i fell in love with him. He can't have been more than 2 or 3 and was the cutest little thing ever. Our guide there had been caught in the Tsunami and he showed us all the scars down his arm from where he had been hanging onto a tree. The rest of his family were swept away. He said the last wave was 6m high. he was originally from Phi Phi but had set up home in Ao Nang. He said the islands off krabi had protected much of that area from the full impact..unlike Phuket which took the full wack. We saw the photo's whilst in Phuket and it was truly humbling and moving to see the devastation, to hear the stories and then to see how well they have bounced back. There is not one family that was not affected in some way by the tsuanami. Now there are warning sirens and evacuation routes built all over the place.

We also hired a kayak for the day at our hotel alacatraz just to get off it and found many little beaches and bays, uninhabited island etc. We found a beach Ton Sai..which they said meant "illegal village" and that had been destroyed previously..but just rebuilt itself. That was like stepping back in time to something you would expect to see in "Robinson Crusoe" or "Castaway" but we loved it, so much so that after we had paddled another mile, we took a detour and paddled back there for another visit!

The weather generally was excellent...very very hot and you must must must keep slapping the cream on..but it is gearing up towards the start of the monsoon season and a couple of times there were storms. it would start with a few flashes of lightening, the wind would get up, there would be one sppot of rain and then it would be like someone was pouring a bucket of water over your head constantly for 10 minutes....then it would stop. It would dry and it would still be hot!!! We had some clothes that didn't dry for 3 days becuase of the humidity. We left them on the balcony and just as they were drying, there was another monsoon downpour....

anyway, that will do for phase 2.

I love the bit about the toilets being holes in the floor. They still exist in some parts of France. I often wonder how very elderly ladies who are having problems with their balance manage to use them. As Fiona says sorry the dives weren't so good but it sounds as though you had an interesting holiday despite this. Waiting to hear what you thought of Bangkok, it's always good to hear a new perspective on somewhere that you know well.

Sorry Val only just found this brilliant report

sounds like the diving was a bit of a let down but maybe that was a blessing in disguise .

Bangkok - we thought we would spend a day in Bangkok to try and break the journey up a little on the way home. We flew in from Krabi, a flight which was just over an hour. I must say the airport at bangkok is spotlessly clean and well ventilated....unlike the rest of the city. OMG..I have never instantly took a dislike to a city before but there has to be a first for everything!

The journey from the airport to our hotel took about an hour even though the traffic was pretty much free flowing right up until we got really into the city centre...then we proceeded at snails pace..or maybe a little slower. At first i was fascinated, looking out of the window at all the sights, the skyscrapers, the giant billboards and the slum areas that just would not be hidden no matter how hard those in authority in Bangkok might try.
It was hard for me to comprehend that people really do live in places like that..we think we have poverty over here..we just touch the surface..what I saw was real poverty and sometimes it is embarrassing because in comparison, I have so much even though I am not rich by any means.

We were staying at the Marriot Courtyard, in a nice central area. Hotel was what I would expect from a city centre anywhere in the world..a nice view from my window of other big hotels, skyscrapers, office blocks etc. After checking in, we decided to have a little bit of a wander..and oh, the pollution. I thought London was bad but this was umpteen times worse..no wonder they all wear them masks. You can actually see the haze of pollution..and when it was dark, you couldn't see a single star..just what looked like smoke that covered as far as you could see. The smell was awful and it got to my chest..in fact, i came down with a cold which I initially thought was a bad chest caused by all the cr@p i was breathing in..but no..I got a full blown cold probably caught on the plane from Krabi when someone kindly sneezed and my bet is that the whole plane suffered!

One thing i did like was the sky trains, rather than an underground system, they built theirs in the sky. There was a station right near us and after advice from our receptionist, she told us to go down 1 station to San Deung where there was a famous night market. Our stop was Rachamdarmwri
(or something like that). The system was very easy to use, the stations were clean and ventilated, the trains spotless inside and with plenty of room..not like the grafitti ridden things I have been on in London. The tickets were cheap and are done in zones..so you look at where you want to be, then press a button for the Zone it says its in. The price is fixed for the zone. Ours was 20 baht which is just under 50p ish. The announcements are made in Thai and English ( good because my Thai is awful!). The journey was about 3 miles but quick..it wasa little scary looking out of the window seeing the city scuttling by below at speed. The trains also run every few minutes, going in a loop from one place to another and back again.

San Deung did indeed have lots of shops and a night market..but the night market was same same..with people chasing you to buy bags, shoes, T shirts and general tat for over inflated prices. The street vendors were well busy selling whatever it was they had cooked..but i was not brave enough to try...I think it was Rat....seriously.....

The next thing we found totally distasteful and seriously seriously seriously...do Thai people think this is what all westerners want?? The Sex industry, the prostitution was literally being forced down our throats. There were girls, some definitely underage clad in next to nowt writhing around in the streets in front of you giving it the "love you long time" speech..and worse still, the men..pimps if you will chasing you to push price lists in your hand. Not just Rob, but me as well. Every single bar we walked past, or club..and if we said no once, we said no a hundered times. There were videos and sex toys on sale on the street, viagra was being sold openly ( I am guessing that's what it was that was on offer) and I eventually took a phot of this one street becuase there must have been nearly 500 women/girls on sale...although a few of them were probably lady boys.
I found this really really sad..and wondered how many of those were women were involved willingly and how many were not...and i could not wait to get out of that part of the city. The smog was making me ill and I just wanted to get back to the hotel and away from the sordid nature of that part of the city. I am not a prude, I am open minded and I don't particularly care there were all sorts of sex toys on sale in the streets, each to their own..it was the fact that some of these girls were so young and the men were selling the women so cheaply..really hassling you to buy a b**w job etc that I found sad and annoying.

Back nearer home, there was a shrine on the street corner called the Erwan shrine. It had hundreds of people there, offering fruit and praying in front of it, lighting incense sticks. there were monks there, dancing girls in this temple bit and a donation box. I managed to get permission to take some photo's for a donation of 100 baht ( about £2) and I was careful not to disturb those in prayer. The shrine was magnificent and next to it was a picture of the King and queen. Thats another thing..the Thai's love thier royal family. In every shop, hotel or even little bamboo hut we went in for the 2 week stay, every single one had a picture of the royal family. There are pictures of them everywhere, on giant billboards, in shops, everywhere. It is also a criminal offence to criticise the royal family...so we were told anyway. Not that I wanted to slag off their King.

Beggars..the place is full of beggars. Not beggars like we know them, but these all had a disability of some form. I am guessing that there is now Welfare system so if you can't work you starve. I was giving away 100 baht notes like no tomorrow..it was just £2 to me but meant so much to them. I gave away about a tenners worth in our money on 1 street alone. One woman, oldish, grabbed my hand and started crying when she looked in her cup and saw I had put in 100 baht. She just kept saying thank you over and over and it took me all my time to get her to let go.

Hotel reports as soon as i can...more reports when i have time...

Hi Val,

You obviously had an experience - truly Bangkok is not as bad as it seems at first sight. Janet and I are probably older than you and Rob (our eldest grandchild is older than your 17 year old).

We were in Bangkok, last, in February and it was really quiet. Believe it or not, the reason many people wear masks is not because of the smog (which is nowhere near as bad as it was some years ago) but to keep the sunlight from their face - if you are tanned you may appear to be "lower class" from the countryside!

You are right when you say sex sells (and mainly to elderly Western males - but also to Japanese and Arabs). The pestering to the extent that you describe, though, seems rather abnormal - they can usually accept a "no thank you", especially if you are a couple. Business must be way down. You don't say which area you were in.

If you try desperately hard to clear your head of your Western European upbringing, you will find that the majority of the girls involved are from poor country areas and are trying to make a crust. The same goes for the beggars - although there a few "professional" beggars who seem to "borow" each others disabled children and this becomes a nightmare.

Try to look around these things and there is a remarkable side to Bangkok (there is also a true underground system - though limited routes). The Grand Palace, Wat Arun, Dinner on the Chao Phraya river, a trip to the floating market, the Teak Palace, Jim Thompson's house etc., shouldn't be missed.

Both Janet and I find Bangkok to be a vibrant city.

A fascinating report and an excellent read. Thanks!

I do hope that your experiences don't put you off Thailand.

Peter

Oh no, I love Thailand and we will be returning many times now to explore all the bits we missed. It was our first visit, we went in open minded and were not disappointed with the holiday at all.

I also appreciate the fact that many of these girls will be trying to make a crust..I am not condemming them for it..I think somewhere my point was that I had wondered how many girls were there willingly and how many were forced into it..I know prostitution is the oldest industry in the world..and sex does sell...but there is a difference between selling it and forcing it. As for business being down, almost everywhere we went we got talking to locals and they said that business was down because of the recession in the rest of the world. They said Europeans had no money now, especially the Brits and they had noticed a severe drop in visiting Brits. Can't say that i noticed that..but I have never been before and did not know what to expect. We did encounter many Scandinavians.

You don't say which area you were in.

..I think I said we visited San Deung ( or somewhere like that) which was one stop down from Rachamdawri, where we were staying. I understand that that part of Bangkok where we were staying is the financial/commercial district.

We would love to have visited the floating market etc..but we just did not have time. We were in Bangkok less than 24 hours before we had to fly home.
maybe I might give it another chance...coz I know we will have to go there again.

Hi again Val,

Probably Sala Daeng station and you went to Patpong. In the evening there are loads of market stalls and the Patpong nightlife area. If this was your first taste of the nightlife, I can see how it must have been "in your face".

I am not an expert on the Bangkok sex trade, but to the best of my knowledge most girls are "bar fined" out of the establishment (a relatively small price which goes to the bar owner as compensation for losing the services of a girl whose prime purpose is to attract custom to the bar). What then happens and the cost thereof is then negotiated directly with the customer. I am not sure if there are many girls who are forced to provide their services - although where there is money..!

When there are fewer tourists, perhaps the girls try harder............

Peter

Val

I think you ended up at Patpong if you only had to go one stop from where you were staying. The stop was probably Sala Daeng. It is one of the centres for sex tourism in Bangkok and parts of it are sleazy and not very pretty.
I think Bangkok is one of those places that you either love or hate, I love it, the friend that I often travel with can't stand the place. I stayed there almost a week last November (some of it enforced, due to protests closing down the airport) and was ready to come home but I am now looking forward to my next visit. I know my OH would dislike the place and I wouldn't suggest he ever accompanied me on one of my trips. You were unlucky with the pollution as PeterB says it has vastly improved, infact in November I don't remember any really bad days and I'm an asthma sufferer. I remember on my first night there having a beer at the openair rooftop bar at my hotel looking at all the lights of the city. As for the poverty, it is a shock for a first time visitor but compaired with some of the places I have visited i.e, Cambodia, Laos and most of India, Bangkok is quite well off..
I'm glad you enjoyed Thailand on the whole though, It's a great destination and a good place for an introduction to S.E.Asia

Peter

Sorry for duplicating your info. your post must have been submiited at the same time I was typing mine.

Judith

Patpong is somewhere I avoid- apart from walking past the area to get a good restaurant there.
Great report though

Val- I agree with you regarding Bangkok, we have been twice now and although I am glad I had the experience, I wouldnt go back. We were stupid enough to get lured in to a 'ping pong' show in patpong...the ones everyone is warned about with no entrance fee or obligation to stay- bla bla! We ended up being escorted up a backstreet staircase and in to a virtually empty bar where we were immediately surrounded by about 12 thai women! The 'show' was actually quite entertaining (as long as you are not easily shocked!) However we had seen enough after about 10 minutes and asked for the bill- which for 6 changs should have been the equivilant of about £6 but was actually £200! apparantly we had bought all the girls a couple of cokes each @ £8-£9 per drink! No one agreed to this.
We managed to get out after paying about £70 but those who are in a smaller group (there were 6 of us) would find it much harder as the bar staff and manager were very intimidating (they locked the doors and refused to let us out)
I know we were stupid and actually laugh about it now but its just an example of how desperate these people are for money.(or maybe greedy?) This is not the only reason that I wouldnt go back to bangkok, the smell of drains is overpowering in many streets and the poverty/begging is quite shocking in places.
Having said all this I would recommend that anyone visiting thailand should see bangkok even if it is just one night as it is certainly an experience that you wont forget in a hurry and there are some amazing sights: The grand palace, river cruise etc.

We have just returned from our first visit to Thailand.Loved Phuket (stayed at Karon Beach),went on a trip to the Bridge of the river Kwae and also visited the tiger temple all of them excellent trips.But as for Bangkok,where we stayed 3 nights.I must say i would not go back, mainly for all the reasons people have said.I live in India so am used to the poverty,rubbish etc. but i found Bangkok to much with the heat the traffic the fumes etc.

We will definitely visit Thailand again but will stay well clear of Bangkok.

John

Sala Deng..thats it!!!!

I am glad I went to Bangkok as I can say I have experienced it now - even if i did not enjoy the experience that much - and I would probably go back..but I know there is so much more to see than what I saw last time..and I would like to see the temples and the floating market etc..which means I would have to spend more than 1 night there!!! I guess it is a means to an end....maybe we were just unlucky.

I also forgot about the overpowering smell of sewerage at times!!!

I just got back from Bangkok yesterday and in our three days we did not see a single prostitute or bar girl, its a case of where you go as with many cities - if it was Patpong you went through then that's like visiting the red light area of Amsterdam. PLus for our visit pollution levels seemed much lower than they used to be. Maybe we were just lucky this time with the weather. I've never regarded begging levels to be high in Bangkok either compared to some other countries I've been to, we passed no more beggars than we would have to negotiate in London for example - although their need seemed greater.

A day in Bangkok is not long enough to get over the culture shock, even coming from a Thai beach resort first